The Casual Dance Teacher's Podcast

Maia
Welcome to the Casual Dance Teacher's Podcast. I'm your host, Maia. No matter who, what, or when you teach, I'm here to share all my best tips and tools, along with real and practical conversations with fellow dance educators to help you be the very best dance teacher you can be. Let's talk about it.

Hi everyone, thank you so much for being here. We are getting right to the end of season two of the Casual Dance Teacher's Podcast.

And when today's guest reached out to me and told me what she does, what she specializes in and what she wanted to share with my listeners, I thought that would be a perfect way to start to wrap up this season with some words of wisdom that are really geared more towards dance studio owners, to be honest. If you've been listening to the show, you've heard me say this before, I try to keep things really focused on that casual dance teacher, the one that's not running the show, not writing the paychecks, but just showing up and trying to do our best for our students. There's lots of great little tidbits in here for us casual dance teachers.

So if that describes you, I would recommend that you stick around. There's going to be lots of good stuff for you to be aware of and be looking for within in your job as a casual dance teacher. But there's also a lot in here for the dance studio owner, the dance business owner, about how to make sure that we are building up and maintaining relationships with the casual dance teacher.

So we're not contributing to burnout, we're not contributing to the high turnover that occurs within this industry among the more casual dance teachers and even very serious full time career dance teachers. Before we get into that discussion, I want to introduce today's fantastic guest, Kelly Groves. Kelly is a nationally recognized business strategist and dance industry consultant, and she specializes in delivering high level consulting and strategic advisory services to empower dance business owners to optimize every facet of their business.

Kelly has worked alongside leading industry organizations, including Empower Dance and the Australian Dance Festival. Kelly has been named one of Australia's top 50 small business leaders and is also a widely respected presenter, facilitator, and advisor. And if any of that sounds compelling to you beyond the scope of the topic that we're going to be talking about today, which like I said, is trying to structure your recital time and your summer dance sessions and seasons in a way that helps your dance teachers feel very safe, respected, uplifted, and ready to come back next season better than they were this season.

So if you are interested in working with Kelly, just learning more, I'm just going to mention right now up front that she is offering a discount on her services to listeners. And I'll have more information about that in the show notes. So you can pop down there right now and check that out and click on the link to access that.

If you listen to the end, I'll also give a little bit more information about what it is that she's offering. So with that said, let's get into the conversation so you can hear more from Kelly directly. Kelly, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to talk to you today.

Kelly
Oh, thank you so much, Maia. I'm so excited to be here.
I cannot wait to dive into deep conversations we're going to have. But yeah, can't wait.

Maia
Yes, exactly! Dive right in is exactly what I was thinking, because I do have a lot of questions and things I want to cover with you. And I want to start, before we really get into the nitty gritty dance teacher questions, I just want to hear about how you became a dance education strategist. What was your dance journey like? And then what was that pivot moment for you where you found strategies that worked and wanted to share that with other dance teachers?

Kelly
Yeah. So my pathway to the dance industry kind of came with a collision of the best of both worlds, I like to call it. So my love for the performing arts, but also I studied business as well. So I never wanted to be a studio owner.

I never wanted to be, well, I didn't think I really wanted to be a professional dancer. I did professional dancing for a couple of years. It's really not for me.

So I grew up around dance and performing arts, but professionally, I just spent many years just kind of seeing where I landed in the industry. But most importantly, I started working closely with dance studios and dance teachers and anyone in the industry that kind of had a personal professional brand behind the scenes. So helping with marketing, enrollment systems, if you're a studio owner, operations, growth strategy, all those kinds of things, because it became really clear to me really quickly that most people in our industry are phenomenal at what they do.

Like they are incredible either dancers, choreographers, studio owners, whatever it may be, but no one ever actually teaches them how to run a business. So for me, it was like, okay, the dance industry is super unique, right? It's emotional, it's community driven, it's creative, but it's also incredibly, I'd say complex to operate successfully. So I found myself kind of naturally stepping into the space of translating that business strategy into something that actually works inside our industry.

So really taking what I knew from a business perspective and literally colliding it with incredible people that wanted to really learn and push their personal brand or professional brand in a way that hadn't really been done before, hadn't really been challenged before. So over the past decade, I've worked with tons and tons of industry professionals in so many facets across Australia and internationally as well, just to help them build sustainable businesses.

Maia
There's so much, obviously, that we could get into there.
As you said, one thing that really struck me when you first reached out to me is how you were talking about, and I'm sorry if I'm maybe misquoting you here, but in my mind, and this is what it sounded like, that you're really passionate about systems that will prevent dance teacher burnout and allow for growth and long term strategic partnerships with dance teachers. And I think that's so important, that really speaks to what the podcast is all about. So I want to start with really focusing on that.

And especially right now, as we're recording, we're getting into what's typically that recital season where I just think there's so much burnout that can happen in recital. And then also, right after that, there can be this huge comedown. For me as a dance teacher, there was always kind of a summer break or a summer lull.

I know that's not everybody's experience. And I think a lot of dance teachers might also struggle with that, where there is energy and excitement and hype around recital time. And then it goes away, and they might question, what supports are there for me in this season? So I want to talk about both of those things.

But let's start with that recital season. Can you talk a little bit about some of the major, I guess, issues or struggles that you've come across in the industry? And do you have any pointers about how business owners can try and build a program that helps support their teachers in that?

Kelly
Absolutely. So first of all, I truly believe that recital season is one of the most exciting seasons in time of the year because there's so much happening, there's so much hype around what you build throughout the year and all these exciting things.

But it's also actually probably one of the most exhausting, right? So the two biggest challenges that I see during the season are operational chaos and what I like to call emotional overload. So first, operationally, many studios, obviously, they run recital season on adrenaline rather than systems like, yes, we're so excited, this is going to be a great production, it's going to be amazing. Teachers themselves are actually juggling the choreography, the costumes, rehearsals, perhaps even emails from parents, depending on where you're sitting in that studio kind of ecosystem, schedule changes as well, and also the whole lot of production logistics.

So more often than not, they're doing that without clear structures supporting them. So it's more of that reactive kind of situation more than anything. And we're really, like I said, running off that adrenaline.

So when this happens, this teacher has become the middle person for everything. If the studio owner is really busy trying to put a production cast in place, whatever it may be, that teacher is like that immediate person that perhaps the parent has to go to to ask about costumes or to ask about rehearsal changes or just a general parent question that perhaps the teacher doesn't know either. And it's not really their duty to kind of know that answer.

So that's where I see that operational burnout is that everything's happening, everyone's hyped up, everyone's really excited. But rather than having a system in place of how to actually address these issues, it really comes to just being reactive and going, I think this is the answer. I think this is how we do it.

And of course, that then can come with some really spiraling effects as well. So that's the first thing I really do see in terms of challenges. The second thing I see is the emotional fatigue.

So dance teachers, obviously, we know we are built to care so deeply about our students. We are built to care so deeply about the output of the show. We're so proud of what we do.

And we want it to be perfect. But when those expectations are set so high, but your systems are weak, teachers actually end up absorbing that stress from every direction. So it can come from the students, it can come from the parents, it can come from that internal studio leadership as well.

When we are really kind of analysing this, we move into the off-season or the summer period and the challenge shifts completely. So instead of that overwhelm, we suddenly see the uncertainty and disconnection, like we've kind of been needed for so long in the chaos amongst all the adrenaline. But then we're kind of not.

And it really just, like you said before, it just kind of becomes like a really sharp come down. And teachers often don't know what the next season looks like, what their role is, even if it's secure. You know, here in Australia, a lot of studios, we kind of go through like growth stages as well in that off-season.

So we're looking at what classes are putting on, the same within the States, same within the UK, what classes, what our timetable looks like and really the opportunities for those teachers. We don't know if they exist moving forward. So studios come from burnout to silence, and it's not really healthy for retention either.

So all those cycles of things that come through are really, really kind of where I see that wave coming through that off-season or that recital season.

Maia
OK, yes, I see that, too. I'll start by circling back to just this one word that you said, and I thought, hmm, I wonder if she has more to say about that, which is analyzing what goes on.

Do you have a, and maybe I'm like queuing you up for like a sales pitch or something, which is fine. I honestly don't know. But do you have a process for analyzing, like if I'm a studio owner or I, you know, maybe I don't even have anyone working under me, I'm just running a program, whatever the case is, that I can step back and analyze where my weak spots within those systems are?

Kelly
I think realistically, it really does depend on where you are in your business and what you're feeling at the time.

So things that I like to think about, there's so many things I think about, but one thing I think about are those what I like to call $10 and $100 tasks. So $10 tasks are the things that need to be done within your business in any particular way. And there's a few people that refer back to this kind of method, but it's the $10 tasks that need to be done.

They have to be done to function as a studio, but are they necessarily a you thing? Then we look at the $100 tasks and they are the things that only you can do to drive your business forward. So the growth strategy essentially is kind of in railing that. So when I reflect and have these conversations with studio owners, industry professionals, whatever it may be, I really kind of get them to kind of sit back and take that moment and go, well, what can I do to make money essentially? What can I do to make money? And what doesn't need my attention right now that I could perhaps either bank, like it's not a priority right now, or just offload to someone else that is able and capable to handle that.

So that's one of the first strategies I look at. And that's simply because we do get kind of spiraling in these situations and we lose kind of vision of where our next steps are. And that's again what I see in that recital season of just getting lost, essentially.

And then we get to that point where we're going, OK, we've just got to get to the end. Recital season's nearly over, we've just got to get to the end, everything's going to be OK. But it's not.

It's not actually going to be OK. Like I said, we go inside a lull and that's where we should be really thinking and being more positively looking at that drive forward for whatever the business is and understanding that you don't have to do it alone. And there are people out there that can support you, like myself as a business strategist and consultant to the industry, but also branches of my business as well can definitely support that.

And there's so many incredible people in the industry that offer support, whether it be long term, whether it be short term. Just know that in that industry, you don't have to do it alone and work with your strengths more than anything, because if you don't work with your strengths, you're kind of putting band-aids on everything just to get through.

Maia
Yeah. And I was just looking at my notes here. I found these three words that you used about leadership, culture and systems to maintain teacher retention. So circling back to that operational chaos, the emotional overload within recital season specifically, can you talk a little bit to some recommendations you have for either one or all three leadership, culture systems to try to have in place for that season?

Kelly
Absolutely. So I truly believe a business is run from the top, and I think that's where everyone really needs to think about. If you're running a business, your business functionality really runs from the top. So having really strong leadership and understanding where your business firstly is aiming to go, but also communicating that with your team as well.

If you can't communicate with your team your goals for your business or what your intentions are long term, then you're not doing great leadership at all. There's so many parts of leadership that should be really analysed and deeply spoken about. So we could have a whole different podcast session about on that.

But I really think that, you know, having strong leadership really filters through a strong team or a strong business overall. So really think about how you are giving opportunities to your team, how you are really thinking about involving them in certain processes or decisions for parts of your business, whatever it may be. Don't give them too much leeway, but obviously give them something to think about.

When it comes to community and culture, that is the bread and butter of your business. If you don't have a positive community and culture in your business and in your studio or whatever it may be, your retention rate is actually going to keep changing. We're looking at building a really stable culture where people actually feel like they belong.

They feel like they want to be part of this community you have built and really understand that they actually have a place there. If they don't have a place, they're going to find a place somewhere as simple as that. So don't treat your students and your enrolments as a number, treat them as someone or some viable long term asset for your business.

Maia
Yeah. So having been through so many different recital seasons in various different communities, I can think of a million examples of that for sure. And like I said, in my experience, I know everyone's summer looks different, especially for those that are doing it as a career versus I've always been a casual dance teacher and I kind of have that luxury of stepping away in the summer.

I think it's probably a lot harder if that is your livelihood and the summer is very up in the air. So I know you talked a little bit about that, like the lack of communication can be a big issue. Can you talk about the flip side of that? What are some really great structures that you've seen or really great ways that you've seen studios support their teachers through that season to make sure that they're retaining them into the next dance season as well?

Kelly
Yeah, definitely. First of all, just communicate with them, check in with them, thank them for a great recital to begin with. This is a perfect time to really keep your team in touch and engaged more than anything, just because recital season's finished doesn't mean that's their finish or, you know, your duty of, you know, I would say duty of care, but it is more just, you know, your duty of building a responsible business. And I use that really firmly, a responsible business, to make sure that your team are feeling the love more than anything.

Unfortunately, many studios, they unintentionally disappear during that time. And teachers, again, they finish the recital, everyone goes on holidays, and then the communication doesn't start again until classes resume. This is the perfect time to be doing some off-season training, you know, invest in your teachers, invest in your studio to really create support for them long term.

No matter if they are casual, no matter if they are permanent, whatever it may be. You should be meeting with your teachers and reflect on what worked, what didn't work, and what they'd like to improve on the next year as well, because that can actually help you in terms of growth as a business overall. So that kind of brings me into even professional development, like I mentioned before, it's a perfect time to invest in teacher growth.

So workshops, training, leadership development, there's plenty of curriculum and planning out there as well that can support with that. But my thing is, when teachers feel like they're growing professionally, they stay longer, realistically. They stay longer because they feel invested and they feel like they aren't just a number.

They're there as part of the business. And I think that really brings out that clarity as well, because teachers want to know what the future looks like. They really do.

And if those details aren't finalised or at least being communicated what plans are, that confidence kind of drops as well. So don't be that studio owner or that program director who just goes, wipes their hands, goes, yeah, OK, recital's done. See you next year.

Maybe. We don't really know. I haven't planned yet.

So more than anything, have a plan, communicate with teachers and invest in them in the off season. It just makes sense. Don't let them feel like they're kind of on the edge about whether or not they have a job, because they could potentially go find another studio to work for that has this already in place and you've lost a really great future.

So it really is about teachers feeling valued and supported and part of that bigger vision. But retention is really about the money alone. They want to feel valued.

Maia
That's so funny that you say that, because, of course, in my mind, I'm going the money, the money, the money, because everyone always wants to ask about the money. Yeah. So I am going to ask you this.

I don't know. Maybe it's a little touchy. But as far as the $10 task versus $100 task concept, which I love that and I'm curious when you talk about investing in teachers, do you have some investments in staff that you think would be considered more of like a $100 investment? For example, the professional development, it sounds like that is really valuable.

You see that leading to retention down the road. Are there any things that you see studio owners maybe investing and thinking, oh, like I'll give them, you know, a dollar an hour raise or something and that's actually doesn't do anything for retention, doesn't help. That would be more in that like $10 bucket where it's not as much value for what you're giving.

Kelly
Yeah, absolutely. Like I think you just kind of hit the nail on the head there. Whereas, yeah, pay rise is great.

We all love a pay rise, right? But is that pay rise being justified with feeling the value with being part of the studio? So just because you're giving a teacher a pay rise, is it because you want them to stay or is it because you actually are invested in the long term? There's a really big difference. So what I mean when I say, you know, do you want them to say it's like you have no other type of teacher that you can get a hold of to cover the classes next year or are you investing in them to go to teacher training, their particular syllabus? Are you giving them that pay rise because they've now done this extra qualification or whatever it might be? So there's a really big difference of understanding the value behind the money and actually what the money means to someone, if that makes sense.

Maia
So if I am a dance teacher that's looking for a new studio, let's say you're looking to get into the industry, do you have any tips from your point of view, like what you should look for that would be like green flags that this place has a great studio, culture, leadership, et cetera?

Kelly
Absolutely. So I would be firstly looking at, there's a few things I'd firstly be looking at, but let's just do like a broader perspective. I would look at the community. OK, so what I wouldn't even be looking at reputation, like reputation is a slightly different thing.

When we look at community, like do we have really positive vibes? Like when you walk into the foyer or whatever it may be, do you feel like really good about being there? Like what's the kind of vibe you get? Are students connected? Are there, you know, are there really great teacher, student, parent kind of communications happening? And you can really observe that from the outset just by standing in a room and kind of having a room filter around you. So spend the time to have those conversations. Again, as I said before, reputation is completely different.

You can speak to someone who has a really great experience with one studio and then someone who hasn't. And that shouldn't really reflect on how you decide if you fit in because it's about your values, your morals and how you teach. And if that aligns with what you want as well.

So that's my first thing. The second thing I would be looking at is do they have systems in place? Like when you come in and you've been perhaps offered a job, do you get offered a contract? And is it really clear? Is there a clear communication process of, OK, well, once this happens, when I do this part, I know who to speak to next or I know what my next step is. And that comes from not just only your position, but also enrolment.

So again, for example, if there's a new enrolment, that person that is enrolling knows exactly what the next step is. So if they come for the enrolment they've enquired and they know, OK, they've come for a trial, after the trial, this, this, this and this will happen, then they're enrolled, whatever it may be. If you're looking at systems, make sure it makes sense, OK? And it's not kind of like flimsy, like, oh, yeah, we just do it this way and we just wait for a phone call.

I'll call you situation because that that's not good. That's that makes me scared. And I say that so often.

People go, why? Like, why does that? Why does that scare you? Because that's not that's not a process, people. That's not a process at all. That's just waiting and hoping.

And that's where you're potentially losing money, because if you don't have a great teacher and a teaching class, then potentially you've got the wrong person to do that class as well. So think about those things when it comes to looking at your studio, looking at a business to work for, because realistically, systems and community are my highest things, but also leadership. If you're not actually speaking directly to the studio owner in this process or you don't have communication with them or they're not able to really have a deeper conversation about the expectations of you as a teacher, but also an overview of the studio, don't go there.

Simply don't go there. It's just not worth it, because if they're not clear on what that is, how are you supposed to be clear on that either?

Maia
Yeah, perfect. This is all so good. Thank you so much. I love it. We've gotten different perspectives, talked about different scenarios that teachers find themselves in.

So I'm going to lob this next question at you with a lot of moving parts and you can answer however you want. So one, I want to hear a little bit more about everything that is that you offer for dance professionals, which I know is a lot. So take your time with that.

In addition to that, anything that you have coming up, anything, any ways of connecting or programs that you want listeners to be aware of and be able to connect with you on. Wait, I think there was something else. What am I missing? Anything else that you want to add? How's that? Just a very casual, open-ended question.

Kelly
Well, the first thing, I'll start with how you can connect with me. Obviously, that's probably one of the big things and most important things, because I love having conversations and hearing about where anyone in our industry, and like I said at the beginning, I work with studio owners, I work with teachers, all sorts of professionals. Even I work with retail businesses in this space as well.

So if you are a dance business, I am for you. I would definitely love to have a conversation. So best way to reach me is through Instagram, which is Kelly Groves with two underscores at the end.

It's super easy, pretty easy to find. There's many other Kelly Groves out there. So it's OK.

And then, of course, from there, you know, they are my branches of what we do in terms of services as well. So we have Dance Business Hub, which is our, I guess, umbrella of all the services that we do. So as a consultant myself, I do work one-on-one in this space with industry professionals.

But also we have a team, if you are looking for admin support, administration support, marketing support, the whole operational perspective in terms of building your business in a really sustainable way, Dance Business Hub is your team of virtual assistants, essentially. We have a team that are all in the industry. We're not offshore.

We're not training someone in the Philippines. We are completely, very much still working in the industry, either teaching, either ex-studio owners and stuff like that. So if that's something that you're interested in, just again, look at those $10 and $100 tasks, take them off your plate, get in touch with my team and they'd be more than happy to help you as well.

So they're the two main things that I probably put forward to have a connection with. But in terms of services, you can find them all on our website, either through Dance Business Hub or kellygroves.com.au. So have a flick through. Again, there's so many things there that I can help you and support you with.

And of course, being in the industry for nearly 20 years in terms of being a teacher, also consulting as well, I definitely just love supporting studio owners and industry professionals to really grow sustainable businesses. That's what I'm here for.

Maia
Yay, beautiful.

And I will also link your websites in the show notes, just an added easy way for folks to get in touch with you. I do remember another question that I had that I didn't put in my notes to you. So I hope we'll see what we can do.

Do you have a favorite quote about dance?

Kelly
Oh, that's a tough one.

Maia
It is. I'm sorry. I almost always put that in the notes to say, like, try and look one up ahead of time. Totally was not. I don't know what I was doing, not thinking. So I'm sorry.

Kelly
I wouldn't say it's about dance, but it could be. It could be a dance thing, because realistically, I think it can be.

And I do see it as something that can be kind of shifted between so many things. So my motto is stay in your lane and go fast. And with that, I see the vision of do what you like, do what you do and do it really well.

And if you can do it well, you will succeed. You will go far. And I think that kind of reflects on anything you do, you know, if you're a really great operator or studio owner or professional dancer, whatever it may be, just stay in your lane.

Don't worry about the noise around you, stay in your lane, go fast, go hard, and do really well.

Maia
Hello, everyone. This is Maia back with you to wrap things up with a big thank you again to Kelly and a reminder that Kelly is offering a discount to our listeners.

Thank you so much, Kelly. Once again, I have put that information in the show notes, but the code is my first name Maia. So that's spelled M-A-I-A 10, the number 10, one-zero, Maia10.

And that can be used at dancebusinesshub.com.au. That's Australia, dancebusinesshub.com.au. As Kelly mentioned, you can learn a lot more there, get more information, but you can also use that code Maia10 to get 10% off your first month. Thank you again. I know I've said that a million times.

Thank you again to Kelly for reaching out to me for taking the time to have this conversation for offering that to the listeners. And I know that Kelly is so warm, so welcoming, such a wealth of knowledge, she would be really happy to hear from you if you would just reach out to her with a DM or anything like that with some additional questions and she can help guide you from there. In addition to that, I really owe a big thank you to all. the listeners. As I mentioned, we are getting towards the end of season two. It's been a huge season of growth for the podcast, and I'm so grateful about that.

And guess what? I am the podcast business owner and the podcast casual dance teacher, and I'm starting to get a little burnt out. So I'm going to take a few months off around recital time. And I am really looking forward to coming back for season three feeling refreshed and rejuvenated.

But this is a good reminder for me to even though I'm a one woman show here about some of the things that I should be doing with that sort of recovery time and making a very clear plan and communicating with myself what my goals are for the future season. So really excited about that. Thank you so much to everybody listening.

Remember that during the time that I'm not publishing new episodes, which there will be a couple more episodes coming. But like I said, we are starting to get to the end of this season. But anytime that I don't publish a new episode, there's still information being exchanged and happening in the casual dance teachers network on Facebook.

So make sure to join that group if you are able. And you can also follow me on Instagram at the casual dance teachers podcast. Thank you so much, everybody.

Talk to you soon.