Cecchetti Ballet Technique with Brian Andrews
Maia
Welcome to the Casual Dance Teachers Podcast. I'm your host, Maia. No matter who, what, or when you teach, I'm here to share all my best tips and tools, along with real and practical conversations with fellow dance educators to help you be the very best dance teacher you can be. Let's talk about it.
Hi, everyone. Welcome to part three of our series about different ballet methodologies and techniques.
I believe this episode will be the last one of season two, and today we're talking about all things Cecchetti Method. Now, if you represent a methodology that we have not covered on the show yet, absolutely, I would love to hear from you. And if you're interested in learning more about a certain method that you haven't heard yet on the show, please reach out and let me know so I can start to look for guests for next season to discuss some of these other methods.
I will link the previous two episodes discussing Vaganova and RAD technique in the show notes. And keep in mind, as I've said with every episode on this topic, these are just conversations with one person that has experience in that field. These are not meant to cover everything about that method or represent the opinions or the thoughts or experiences of any organizations that represent that method or other members of those organizations or people that have experience with these techniques.
With that said, I've had some really knowledgeable and experienced guests, and it's so fun to talk to them and get to know more about these different techniques. Just to share a little bit with all of you so that we can learn more, have an open dialogue and keep learning from one another. If you have anything to share, again, reach out to me.
You can find me in the Casual Dance Teachers Network Facebook group or on Instagram at the Casual Dance Teachers podcast. Now, let's talk a little bit about today's guest, Brian Andrews. Brian's career actually did not start in the world of professional ballet.
He performed in the original Broadway production of Cats, as well as the first national and international tours of A Chorus Line. Brian then went on to purchase and run a dance studio in South Florida for 10 years and then led the dance department at Florida's largest regional theater's Conservatory of Performing Arts. Brian has been active with the Cicchetti Council of America for 25 years, serving two times as chairman of the Florida committee, and his students have gone on to appear on Broadway, at Disney theme parks, cruise ships, on television, cabarets, and in dance companies.
Without further ado, Brian, thank you so much for joining me today.
Brian
Thank you for having me.
Maia
Yes, I am really excited to kind of pick your brain about the Cecchetti method.
I want to start by hearing about your background and what brought you into this world of teaching Cecchetti ballet technique.
Brian
First, I was a professional dancer as a performer, and then I switched into teaching sort of as a second career. I mean, you think it's going to be like a natural progression, but it really isn't.
And there's a whole new set of skills that need to be learned to be a good teacher, even though you might be a good dancer. You know, the different skill sets. So I had taught a little bit and had my own studio, but when I got into my own place, you know, I really wanted to improve my own teaching skills.
And so I was able to kind of do a little internet search, just like that was starting to be a thing. And I came up on the Cecchetti Council of America. I honestly think I was like number two to their website.
Maia
Wow.
Brian
I mean, it was like visitor number two. Anyway, there was also some Vaganova teaching going on.
I was living in Florida at the time, but this one was a little more accessible to me. So I was contacted by the chairman of the Florida committee, Ms. Pyrko Lawler. She was also the founder of the committee.
And you get attached to a coach. So you find one in your area that you can get to because you're going to be coaching with this person. And my decision between like which method was mostly about that.
Like I could get to that one. And, you know, I had maybe studied a little bit of it when I was younger, but didn't really know. You know, it was just a little of this and a little of that.
But I had studied some Cecchetti just without knowing it. You know, I never took exams or anything like that. When I was younger.
So that's sort of what led me into it. It was like having my own studio, just wanting to be a better teacher, you know, wanting my students to be looking more professional, like they know what they're talking about. And, you know, just part of the journey.
Maia
Yeah. So what what was that process from when you were contacted by the head of the council to do training, to do certification? What does that look like?
Brian
OK, so the certification, first of all, it's not like something you can do on a weekend. It is a long journey, like a lifetime journey.
I have been in it for 25 years. I'm not at the end of it. You know, there's a there's a lot to learn.
So they invited me to one of their weekend workshops in Florida. So you're going to get like an overview there of some of the different levels of the methods, even on a weekend like that. You're not going to see all of level one and all of level three, just a little of this and a little of that.
And they kind of you get an overview of it. Then you're with your coach, and that is just as often as you can do it. I was able to do it once a week with my coach.
So you're going to go. They're very nice when they email you. They're like, oh, it's very nice that you've had this opportunity to work with these amazing people on Broadway.
And, you know, you have to start at level one right at the beginning. And it totally makes sense because there's building blocks to it. So no matter how far you are, if you want to learn a method, you have to start at the beginning and learn the rules of the road.
So you learning a syllabus, but also there's so the students take just syllabus and have to know a little theory. But the teachers have to know a lot of questions and answers about how are you going to teach it? You know, what's the imagery that you're going to use? And very specific things about the methods. You know, what's different between Cecchetti and Vaganova or, you know, Valentin or whatever.
And you might not end up being an expert at any of those other things, but you'll learn something about them because they're different. Right. And Cecchetti is pretty specific and so are they.
So you progress through levels, you know, you go finally, you know, let's say level one and you're ready to go before the panel. So the panel is usually two adjudicators that are from the National Examining Board. And you go to them or they come to you depending on, you know, like the circumstances that the studio is hosting an examination weekend, you can kind of jump in with that.
Hopefully you get a good score. You know, there's a lot of levels of scoring. Then you move on to the next plateau and you're still with the same coach, but the examiners are different every single time.
Okay. So you're not like getting the same one, you know, my favorite, you know, none of that happens. Every time it's a fresh set of eyes and they give you a score sheet and you can, you know, review that and what I did wrong.
You know, it's like a performance ultimately. They also have a Cecchetti Council of America summer school that's a week long thing for teachers and two weeks long for students. So the students are there for two weeks and they're learning from like wonderful teachers from around the country and none of the syllabus for them.
They have a performance at the end and it's just apply your technique to here's ballet in the real world. And it's a really cool thing. I've been a counselor for that a couple of times and I've gone to the teacher thing a few times.
So the teachers are there all learning the syllabus, you know, hot and heavy. Some people are taking exams there. All the examiners are there.
But the thing that is one of the things that's amazing about this, like the Cecchetti Council is, you know, you meet all these wonderful teachers and you get to know them and they love to talk about technique, about teaching. So even outside of learning the syllabus and the history of it all, you know, you're just comparing notes with people who are just into it like you are and it's not competition really at all. It's even when you're going for exams, it's just how did you do? You know, how did your students do it? There's no competition there either.
You know, it really is like a family. Ultimately, the longer you're in it, your circle of friends gets wider and wider and wider and it's really quite amazing. You get to the upper levels, they're more professional level like and at the very, very end, like the advanced and the diploma stuff, that's very almost historical.
Like those are things that Cecchetti taught himself and they're kind of being preserved. Some of the stuff they don't even really do anymore or they do it that way, but you're still learning this foundational work. It's very difficult to do.
Like if you were able to do it, you probably would be already a professional dancer, you know, or at least of that caliber. Like around the world, the top four major levels are the same and each council or society has underlying student levels that they devise themselves that take you to those upper levels. They even name them differently, but ours is elementary, intermediate, advanced, and diploma in the US.
There's four levels underneath there, level one, two, three, four, where you're kind of preparing grade school students, you know. Each one has a little pre-point in it and each one has a little vocabulary that they learn. There's these principles of ballet that are specific to Cecchetti, the rules of the road, you know, and they get more complicated, but you learn along the way.
So it's all cumulative, which is probably the best part of learning the method, especially if you're a new teacher, you know, you can learn what comes next. So you're not just like grabbing, oh, let's see what I can get them to do this week. Right.
You know that this year or this semester, we're going to work on these steps that are going to lead us to this, you know, and some studios really into the examinations and the students are all gearing up for that at the end of the year. It's like a special, you know, kind of performance in a way, you know, with extra rehearsals and they get nervous. And then I've taught at some places where that's not a thing.
Competition studio maybe doesn't have time to devote to that. Plus they're studying so many other different subjects, so you're just still there over there in my little room, plugging away, teaching, you know, good ballet technique that I know is really sound and physically appropriate for the age group and what would be expected of this age group. Yeah.
Not just in my own head, but like I already know because I'm a member of this bigger thing.
Maia
Yeah. You've touched upon kind of answering a lot of my different questions, so I just want to kind of pull out a few things to parse out more.
So we'll come back to a lot of what you just talked about. Thank you for getting into all that. I guess the first thing that you had said that struck me, how you have been doing this for 25 years and you're still learning, you're still growing.
So I did want to ask you, are there requirements for continuing education to maintain certification with Cecchetti? I know obviously you talked about the summer program as an opportunity, but what are the requirements if there are any, and are there any other opportunities as well that you want to share?
Brian
Well, at least in the Cecchetti Council of America, which is where I have been, and now I'm in Toronto, so I'm going to join that one and see how they do it. Okay. I haven't been there yet.
So if you're going to be an active member, you do have to keep showing up to these weekend workshops in your committee fairly regularly, once in every three years just to keep your membership alive. But if you were really actively presenting, you would be wanting to show up to your committee workshops. They have a refresher every year, at least once a year, maybe twice.
There is where you would learn what's been going on at the summer camp in Michigan, the national committee, and they send a liaison to your committee and they'll give you the updates and keeps everybody on track, really. So it's like the opt you're on your own doing it the Florida way, but you're still doing it to the national standard. So to be active, yes, you have to keep showing up and putting your name on that little attendance list.
However, once you get the diploma or you get the certificate, they don't come take it away from you. You have it. You have the knowledge.
Like I said, now I'm not really going to be an active member of the Cecchetti Council of America, but I'm going to find Cecchetti Canada folks and figure out how that transfers. So like I said, they have a completely different under syllabus, but the upper syllabus is the same.
Maia
I am maybe quizzing your historical knowledge of Cecchetti here, but is that because initially he was starting with dancers that were already dancing and just codified like the top four levels? Or is there a different reason why they broke away?
Brian
Okay. So it is like that. So Cecchetti, Enrico Cecchetti himself only taught professional dancers. He was the ballet maestro, the ballet rooster, whatever back there, back in the day, like a hundred years ago.
And so there were these two different teachers or students, I can say one name, Margaret Krask, and I can't really remember the other one, that were copious note takers and wrote everything down and sort of towards the end of his life, these two people came together and realized that their notes were nearly identical. And they wrote what is called now the manual. And the theory of Allegro, the theory of advanced Allegro.
And Enrico Cecchetti sort of went over the notes with them and kind of codified it into a method. So famously in Cecchetti, like they do certain steps on Monday and certain steps on Tuesday and certain steps on Wednesday and certain steps on Thursday. And it's a seven day thing, which of course, none of us have students that come in seven days a week.
So you can't teach it that way anymore. You know, like I said, that's for an active ballet company where they're in company class every day. But even the maestro, Cecchetti himself would change it up for whatever ballet star was there with him in the room or whatever ballet they were rehearsing.
But clearly the guy had to be OCD to have this sort of specific method. And boy, it covers every single step you could imagine. So certain days are turn day and certain days like Petite Allegro day.
And it's just like everything is covered within a week. If you could come seven days a week and do it, you know. But like I said, it doesn't work that way anymore.
But still the syllabus still exists. And, you know, it's like you're going to thinking at the end of the year, over the summer, maybe you're taking exams. You've got a year to work through this.
And then, you know, even some of those levels take two years to get through. Okay. Honestly, you're going to have to break it down and build it back up and get it to a certain quality.
So this takes a sweet time. You know, it's sort of like growing organic vegetables. It takes a little longer, but, you know, there's deeper roots and it's just like a little more of a flux at the end that the kids really know what they're saying and kind of why they're doing it and why a step is named the way it is.
And I like it when the kids will come back from the convention weekend and say, oh, my teacher said, you know, I was really good on the vocabulary and everything. And I really knew what they were saying. And they get to put their hand up a lot.
And they feel really good about that. That's part of what the method is, what the words are and the historical reasons why we say it.
And there's always a little bit of history in there. And most methods came from Cecchetti somehow. You know, you look in a couple of books that are like on ballet teachers through the years and they have these little family trees, like they always go back to Enrico Cecchetti.
You know, Balanchine himself was a student of Enrico Cecchetti. So you can make your whole method. But still kind of was foundational about Cecchetti kind of made ballet class format the way it is now.
And you just got to update it a little bit. So I think when people teach to the method, sprinkle their own little thing, what they know anyway, into the top of that, because things are a little different these days, right? The way they do it and what's expected. But nothing beats the knowledge, you know, of the eight directions of the body or whatever and specifics of all of that.
Maia
Yeah. So you have mentioned, I'm hearing a lot of the benefits of studying Cecchetti already, which is something I was going to ask you about. But you mentioned specifically the core principles of Cecchetti a couple times.
And I wanted to ask you more about that. Not necessarily that you have to like list every single one of them. But could you just explain a little bit more? What is it really that sets this method apart? What are the unique elements of the Cecchetti system that make a difference for your students and or for you as the teacher?
Brian
Probably the most obvious ones to students and teachers are like the positions of the body.
I've taught in the studio where the lady across the wall was teaching the French method. So the kids will come in and say, my teacher says this is first. Okay, well, that is first, but it's also fifth front.
And so the arm positions are maybe labeled differently, but could be the same position. Feel like in Cecchetti, there's like more arm positions, there's more arabesques, and there's more body positions than say in the Vaganova one. But once you learn the one, you sort of have to discuss the other one because like you're taking from the other lady on Tuesday.
And neither of us are crazy. We're both teaching the same to our own method. And I would go and talk with them and how do you teach this? And how do you teach that? And my kids are going to come in and say, Mr. Brian said, we want to make sure that everybody's getting to the same goal.
But okay, so the eight positions of the body where like they're not the same in the Vaganova, but they're similar, even fewer of them in the French method. There's positions of the feet. They're probably universal.
There's the arabesques are slightly different in their labels, but maybe not so much the positions. In the Port de Bras, well, first of all, Cecchetti has those very famous set Port de Bras, which like everybody knows, if you're a Cecchetti person, you would know these Port de Bras. But like just a basic difference in croise devant, most people are going to have their arm out to second, but the Cecchetti folks have it in demi-second.
It's a little shaded. And that's another one of sort of the principles. Things are in opposition.
So if one arm's going down this way, this one's going in the opposite direction. So it's not like L-shaped, but it's sort of things go in opposite directions or they land together. So it's feet are in fifth, your arms are in fifth.
You could kind of know that just because of the rules of the road. Different approaches on pirouettes, but I think there's a hundred different approaches on pirouettes. But the Cecchetti way is to spring up, do a tiny little spring, you know, not a big spring, but not everybody likes to spring up.
A lot of people like to press up, but those would be different, right? So you'd have to sort of say like almost it's like a geared to pirouettes on point, which you do spring up, but they do that even on flat. Ultimately, a plie is a plie and a tendu is a tendu in every method. So even if they might set them up differently, start in second and then go to first instead of starting in first and then going to second, it's still knees over toes.
And about the alignment, that's kind of a big Cecchetti thing. Yeah. The alignment, the hip placement and all that.
Maia
So outside of just being successful in say a Cecchetti exam or like moving up within that method, do you see benefits for students as far as succeeding in the professional world, in auditions, being versatile? Like what are some benefits of studying within the method that go beyond?
Brian
I am a musical theater background person. So kind of an odd fit with the Cecchetti Council of America. Most of those folks have come from a ballet world.
And while I was ballet trained, that isn't where I performed or had my career. So it doesn't all go back to this is what they did in Giselle. And I don't relate to it that way.
Most of my students end up in that musical theater world. Maybe they're not even dancers, but they're singers that also dance and the triple threat thing. So Cecchetti itself might be really unique in its foundation, but in the world of Broadway, which every single show has a different flavor of choreography, you still need to have a good foundation to do that crazy stuff, to learn how to land and take off and not injure yourself when you're doing this.
I mean, I was in Cats, which was kind of modern and ballet and its own weird little language about ballet. But to do that eight times a week without getting injured, you have to have your good little foundation, you know, so you can land properly and just do the weird things that they want you to do on Broadway eight times a week safely. So I feel like, and even the manual, the title of it is about Technical Manual of Theatrical Dancing.
It does not say ballet on the cover of that thing, the original manual says theatrical dancing. I take that to heart. You know, there's lots of Broadway folks that are Cecchetti trained and like a really good example is Agnes DeMille, if you look at like Oklahoma, Brigadoon, they're very Cecchetti flavored.
They really are. If you look at her, you think like, oh, and especially if you knew the syllabus, it's very Cecchetti flavored. And back in, you know, a little bit before I got to the musical theater world, there were Cecchetti teachers, this guy, I think his name is Jackson Pickle, I might be wrong about that.
Taught all the Broadway dancers, all kind of have that ballet background back in the day. And I think it's a really good foundation for whatever, you know, yes, when I send the girls to their college auditions, their teachers know they're a Cecchetti girl, but there's no shame in it. They really know what they can do and they can adapt really clearly, usually for me, because we've been doing West Side Story at the same time.
Like it's just when you get done with it, it's just dancing anyway. Yeah. Now, I'm once again, really showing my ignorance here, but I've talked about this with some of the other folks representing some of the other methodologies.
So I want to hear about this from you as well with the Cecchetti training and the syllabus that you're given. I truly have no idea. Is it like a plug and play situation where you're told these are the combinations that you're doing? Or is it more these are the principles and then you as the teacher have to figure out how to apply them within the class? In the Cecchetti, they are the principles and it is a strict syllabus.
These are the steps. Okay. Thank you.
They are spelled out in every level from the babies all the way up to the Cecchetti manual, which is sometimes with my kids, I would go, okay, I'm going to read from the manual now. And it's a very long, very descriptive page. And you like have read this entire long paragraph and done maybe a move.
Maia
Wow.
Brian
It's just so descriptive. Yeah, it's very specific. Okay. It is very specific. It's sort of like my way or the highway.
Except that when you see different people teach it, they do all have their own little flavor. And if you research it, you do know that like any teacher or choreographer, Cecchetti taught it differently on different people to make it work, right? Because different people have different bodies. So, you know, historically, it's one way, right? The way it says in the manual, but it appears slightly different on everybody.
And you would have to teach it a little differently to everybody to get the same result. Right. So, yes, it's really strict, but you have to adapt it to everybody.
Maia
Yeah, right. That's what makes a good teacher. Exactly. Yeah. And speaking of, oh, what a perfect segue. Speaking of great teachers, let's go back to you, Brian.
So before we close, I just wanted to hear, I mean, you mentioned that you recently moved, so you got a lot of things in flux, but are there any specific projects or things that you have going on that you want to share with the listeners?
Brian
So I've been taking just adult class over at the National Ballet School, which is a couple of blocks from where I live. It's an amazing kind of facility, which I've just barely, you know, seen a little bit of it, just my own little classes and stuff like that. But they're hosting the Cecchetti Weekend, and so I'm about to meet the Cecchetti Canada folks.
While I'm here, I'm thinking I'm exploring adjudication for dance competition, which is another thing. You might think, oh, I was a really good teacher. This is going to be a shoo-in to be adjudicated.
It's not. It's another whole set of skills that you have to learn how to do, you know? So to that end, I've met these people at a place called the Dance Leadership Institute, TDLI, and they help you get certification on adjudication, what you practice. You know, it's a good way of networking.
They seem to be in Vancouver, but it's really nationwide. And yeah, I'm sort of working with them a little bit because I'm trying to explore this adjudication thing as maybe a next step, something to do up here in Canada that's a little different than what I used to do. And if I get to teach, I'll also get to teach.
I haven't done that yet, but just sort of retired and getting settled this year.
Maia
Beautiful.
Brian
And networking and meeting some folks.
Maia
Yes. Oh, you're setting me up with these segues so great. So as far as networking, how can folks connect with you online?
Brian
That's easy. I'm on Facebook with my own name, Brian Andrews, and also on Instagram, so that's pretty easy. I can get messaged either way and you can tell it's because it's a dancer.
Maia
Yes, well thank you so much. I really, really appreciate your sharing and I can just hear and feel your enthusiasm through the conversation even though we have not met in person.
So I really appreciate that. And I always like to close with a quote. Do you have a favorite quote about
Brian
Oh, I do. I wrote it down. My favorite quote is from the Broadway dancer, Ann Reinking. May she rest in peace. She was really an outstanding performer.
Okay, her quote is, "If you practice being lazy, you'll get good at lazy. If you practice being average, you get good at average. But if you practice trying to excel, you are going to excel at your own pace and in your own way."
Maia
Hey folks, it's Maia hopping back on to close out the show. Big thanks to Brian.
I just really enjoyed his enthusiasm for the cicchetti method and having this conversation. And I will just say one more time for season two, which will be wrapping up in April 2026. We have three episodes about three different ballet techniques.
You can check the show notes to see the other two so you can make sure that you listen to all of them. And if you're interested in hearing more, or you specifically specialize in a ballet technique that has not been discussed on the show yet, please reach out to me. You can do that in the casual dance teachers network Facebook group, or on Instagram at the casual dance teachers podcast.
Huge thanks to GB mystical for our theme music at the beginning of the show. Be sure to leave us a review wherever you're listening today. And thank you again.
I will see you next week.
