The Casual Dance Teacher's Podcast

Maia
Welcome to the Casual Dance Teacher's Podcast. I'm your host, Maia. No matter who, what, or when you teach, I'm here to share all my best tips and tools, along with real and practical conversations with fellow dance educators to help you be the very best dance teacher you can be. Let's talk about it.

Hey, everyone. Thanks for being here. We are in episode two of a two-part series about dance assessments today. So if you missed last week's episode, be sure to go back and listen to that one, part one, where we get into talking about dance assessments with Danielle Aliotta. Today, we have a repeat guest to the show.

I actually spoke with her in season one about elements of artistry. We had a great talk then, and I knew that today's topic was something that she was also very familiar with and wanted to pick her brain a little bit more about. So today, we have Chelsea Weidmann on the show to talk more about her experience with dance assessments.

Now, I'll let Chelsea introduce herself and tell us a little bit more about her background, but just to give you a brief overview, Chelsea is known online as the Geeky Ballerina, and she's performed in core soloist and principal roles, as well as working as a ballet mistress, private coach, and a teacher in both private schools and pre-professional programs, and choreographing for many different venues. Chelsea has also published articles in the Journal of Dance Education and Dance Education in Practice. She received her MFA from Goddard College, is an ABT-certified teacher, as well as being certified in muvmethods flexibility curriculum, and progressing ballet technique.

Chelsea's students have been invited to numerous prestigious summer programs, including the Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis School, Alberta Ballet School, Boston Ballet School, and others. Without further ado, Chelsea, thank you for joining us on the show again. Welcome back.

Chelsea
Thanks. I love being here.

Maia
Yay, yes.

I love having you. Last time, I know, I think I ended the conversation, I was like, we have to talk about so many more things. So here's one of them.

And one thing that I realized actually listening back on our last episode is I was so excited to delve into that elements of artistry conversation that I really didn't ask you, like, hardly anything about yourself. I was just like, tell us about the elements of artistry, and how do we do this? And how do we teach artistry? So I figured, let's start this one off by giving you an opportunity to talk a little bit about your own training. Like, what was your dance education like? And then as we're transitioning into talking about dance assessments, what was your experience with any kind of assessment process as a student? And then how did you get into starting to become part of that process as an educator?

Chelsea
Awesome.

Maia
Is that too much? Or can we start with that?

Chelsea
Let's start and see where it goes.

Maia
Let's see where it goes. Okay.

Chelsea
And I don't mind that you didn't ask. Like, I don't need to talk about myself, but I can. So I came to ballet really late. I was 12 when I started.

Maia
Okay.

Chelsea
And I had started on a really casual path. Like, I saw a dance performance at, I think it was like a 100 things to do besides drugs during a Red Ribbon Week fair. I saw a dance performance, and I was like, I want to do that. And so I signed up for once a week classes.

And then I was like, I want to join a team. And they were like, okay, well, now you need to take ballet. So I did that.

And then I realized that I liked that more. And then I shifted to a pre-professional program. And I trained with, at the time, it was Utah Regional Ballet, their associated school.

Now they're Utah Metropolitan Ballet. But that's where I got my foundation, really, in ballet. I'd had ballet before, but the emphasis had been on catching me up with the other team dancers.

And now the emphasis was filling in the gaps, which I thought was incredibly important. The only feedback that I got during that program was the annual audition. At a certain level, you were invited to audition for the junior company.

And then once you were in the junior company, you were allowed to audition for the senior company. Because this was when it was a regional ballet program, and they didn't have professional contracts. So the first year that I auditioned for the junior company, I did not make it.

And I got feedback that I was progressing really well, but there were still some gaps we needed to fill. And my point work was really weak. And none of this came to me as a surprise.

And the director was like, we're going to focus on the technique in class. But to fill the point gaps, you would need to take this other class. So there was a really clear path forward, which was great.

So I did that. And then I went to audition the second time. And I didn't make it again.

And I got really clear feedback again. This is really hard. The really clear feedback that I got was, "It does not matter how good you get. I will never put you on my stage. So you probably want to go somewhere else." Yeah, you can see why I was like, I don't want to say it out loud.

Maia
Yeah.

Chelsea
On the one hand, that's a pretty awful thing to say. And years later, I ran into a member of the board who gave me some clarity on that.

It was nice to know that it wasn't me. There were other things going on. But that was years later and after I had done therapy for it.

But it was clear feedback in that there was no reason for me to be there. So I actually thought I was done dancing. Because my heart was broken.

And I was like, I can't do this again. I can't do this anymore. But then I ended up, it's such a random story.

I was babysitting for this family that I always babysit for. But they were like, hey, we're having a big family party at my parents' house. Can we hire you to come just kind of watch all the kids? I was like, okay.

So I went and I was doing that. And his youngest sister was a dancer and a dance teacher and incredibly talented. And he was like, hey, my babysitter dances too.

And she's like, oh, where do you dance? And I just started to cry. She's like, well, what happened? And I told her. And she's like, well, just come dance with us.

So I went to her studio, auditioned for their competition team, and finished high school there. And I never got any feedback, except for one time I asked for it. I asked to have a meeting with the director.

And I really, I'd been there a year when I asked for it. And what I wanted to know was, why did you place me so high? Because I didn't deserve it. And again, I got really clear feedback.

She was like, because the other teacher told me to. She said she was sure that you could do it. So we took a chance on you.

But no, I wouldn't have done that if you had just walked in off the street. And I was like, oh, OK. So emotionally, I wanted to know.

But there was no technical guidance. So then I went to college. And I did not major in ballet for my bachelor's.

But I took a lot of ballet classes. And there was, again, just so little feedback. You got your grade.

But that was it. I had two professors who gave feedback. And one of them, you signed up for a time to go into her office during office hours, during reading days.

And she would say, this is the grade you're getting. And this is why. Which was helpful.

But it was a five-minute meeting, tops. And there also was no time to do anything about it. If you found out that you were getting a C because your glute medius muscles were weak, if you had found that out at midterms, you could have been working on it.

But we only found out two days before grades were due. There was nothing that was going to change. But at least you knew why you got the grade that you did.

And then I had another teacher for midterms. She videoed the class. And then you signed up for a time.

And you came in. And you reviewed the video of yourself dancing with her. And I don't remember very much.

I remember a lot about the logistics of rotating and how many times we needed to repeat everything to make sure that everybody was on camera for everything. I remember a lot about the logistics process. But the only feedback I remember from this professor's office was, from the back, you almost look as skinny as Penny.

Which she meant it in a very complimentary way. It's like, oh my gosh, isn't this wonderful? Look how great you look from the back. The front kind of messes it up.

But from the back, you look great. You know, I really like this professor. This professor gave me a lot of guidance.

And that made it possible for me to go into graduate work. I have no ill will. I just think it's really funny that that's the only feedback I got.

So I think in the ballet world especially, the assumption is, I give you feedback every day in class. I give you feedback in every single combination. Actually, it's not just the ballet world.

This is how dance teachers think. And it's true, we do. But I don't think it's reasonable to expect students to keep track of the combination and keep track of the feedback that you just gave them.

And on a really good day, keep track of the feedback you gave them a week ago. And then also keep track of that cumulatively and objectively. Like, I know that a lot of people encourage students to keep a journal for this reason.

And I think that's a great idea. But a lot of them don't. Most of them don't.

And even the ones who do only see things through their own perspective, not yours, which is why I am a huge believer in written feedback. I just think it matters because I will correct everything I see and I don't necessarily rank it. And so written feedback gives me an opportunity to say, I see all the work you're doing.

The most important thing for you is to point your feet more. Specifically your ankle. It's not doing a thing.

I'm thinking of someone by name right now. Like written feedback gives you a chance. You get to focus in on the three most important things.

And they're usually broad things instead of something vocabulary specific, which I think is really helpful. Written feedback is also a chance to point out to people what they're doing well, which people forget. If you do it more than once a year, you can say, hey, look at the growth between point A and point B. And this is another reason that I think people don't realize.

Many of our parents are not dancers and they want to support their kid, but they don't know how. Like if I sign my kid up for a recreational gymnastics class and I go in for the parent showcase at the end of six weeks, I can be like, hey, she just did a cartwheel and didn't hit her head on the ground. This is progress.

But a tendu or a jazz square or a pivot turn, adults don't know how hard pivot turns are, right? And so parents want to support their kids and want to applaud their kids, but don't know what to look for. And a written progress report gives them a chance to be involved.

Maia
We're going to come back to this. So I have actually a lot that I want to come back to on that. But we'll see. We'll see exactly where we get.

But before we do that, I kind of want to put this all in perspective because I did have a conversation with Danielle Aliotta and she was talking primarily about her experience with assessing in the public school sector where, you know, you have very formalized educational standards. Most kids are, you know, they might be at all different levels. They're going to be at a class together.

And so you have to set standards for each student based on where they start. And like, what are the measurable outcomes of growth for that particular student? And it's not going to be the same for everyone. I'm curious what your experience is with giving assessments in a little bit more of the maybe pre-professional ballet track, where it might be a little bit less individualized.

But I'm speculating here. I don't know. I want to hear from you. Is it still centered around each individual student and their growth? Or is it like, here's a checklist of skills and we're grading you ABC or we're saying, yes, no, you have it or you don't.

Chelsea
I really want to say that it's individualized and it's all about student growth. It's not.

Because if the end goal is a professional career, I know you need to have this list of things done. And before you're ready for this list, you need to be ready for this list. And before you're ready for this one, right, so we like step down.

And so I know before I move you up, these are the key foundations that you need to have. You don't need to have the whole level mastered, but there are between three and five things that you've got to be able to do or you will struggle the entire time you're in the next level. And that's not fair to you.

It's not fair to your next teacher. So it's much more.

Maia
And I think as quote, unquote, casual dance teachers, I think it's really important. And this is why after talking to Danielle, I also wanted to kind of delve into this conversation even more with what an assessment can mean for different styles of teachers like she was talking more about that public sector and focusing on like the students holistic education. Then I understand, obviously, in some studio settings, it's not going to look like that. And it's going to be like you either have it or you don't to move on to the next level.

And I think we can learn from and kind of synergize the information from all of those approaches. But we have to understand what approaches are going to work best for our students before we can create any kind of systems that will work in our studios or in our classrooms, because you're right, like the students need feedback, regardless if they're casual, if we see them once a week or if they're trying to be professional and we see them every day. It's not fair to them to not have feedback, but we also have to set them up of what are the goals that they're going to be receiving feedback on? How is that feedback going to be presented? Because if they think that they're a casual dancer and then all of a sudden, they get into a situation where they're being told, you'll never be on stage, yeah, they're going to have to go to therapy about it. I just think it's such an important conversation to have. And that's just me getting on my high horse, I guess.

But just for someone that maybe doesn't have the best sense of like what some criteria might be, can you maybe give an example of a student body that you've worked with before? What did the assessment look like at the end of the season? Or was it periodic throughout the season? Just give us a little bit more in-depth example.

Chelsea
Most places evaluate at the beginning of January because they have their teachers do it over the winter break.

They're like, this is when the teachers have time, this is when we're going to do it. So they'll do a progress report in January and then they do their placement, whether it's an audition or an evaluation or just placement listings, they'll do it. More and more it's happening in May.

My personal old-fashioned opinion is that it's a little better if it can be end of July, beginning of August, just because people can grow so much over the summer. But the world has shifted and it happens mostly in May now. I think that's the wrong time to do it.

It's not when I do it. And I can talk more about that if you want. Every place that I've been does it in January.

And the reason I don't like doing it in January is I have a really strong halo effect. And so if I sit down on my vacation to do an evaluation, all I'm going to think about is how much I like that person. I like all of my students, but that's not a useful evaluation.

I've emailed them out and then ended up in the studio two days later and been like, why didn't I include X? Like, ah, you know, because I have this halo effect that I know about myself. And also, I usually don't get a heads up that evaluations are coming. It's one of those, like, institutional knowledge things.

So once you've been in the studio a full year, you know, but that first year you're like, I'm on a dance detox for 12 hours, but I guess I'm doing them. I'm kidding. I never dance detox.

But I prefer to do them actually in October and March instead. I like to do them in October because we are six weeks in to the season. The first six weeks are as train wrecky as it's going to be because it's this massive adjustment that's a new team or a new level, a new teacher, a new school teacher, a new school schedule, a new family schedule.

Like everything is transitioning all at once. And people just don't have the bandwidth to pay attention to great technique. Like they're doing their best.

I don't want to make it sound like people slack for six weeks because they don't. But six weeks in, everybody has found their rhythm. They have a bedtime.

They have a meal schedule. They understand my style of teaching and they look much better. So I feel like sometime in October is a really great time to do the first evaluation.

We get a great baseline of where we are. And I use the same evaluation throughout the year. And I just explained to parents, they're going to be lower numbers in October and they're going to be higher when you see them in the spring.

Don't worry about it. I am evaluating them today and where we want to be in nine months. The other nice thing about doing it in October is if you have somebody who is misplaced and you go to do the, like if I do an evaluation in October and you've scored all fives because I do it out of five, that's a sign to me that we need to bump you up.

And we usually have enough flexibility to do that or at least have that conversation. Whereas if you ask a parent in January, everybody thrives with some type of routine. The depth of the routine varies, but if you do it in October, they're already kind of in transition stage.

And so it tends to go a little bit better. So I like to do it in October. And then I skipped the one in January because if you had any kind of holiday show, you did not have as much time to put into your technique because no matter how hard we try, there will always be at least one class canceled for a rehearsal.

And if you're the teacher who's doing the rehearsals and running the shows and teaching the classes, you're doing three jobs at once and you're doing a great job. But the technique just kind of dips a stitch. I really hope parents aren't listening to this.

Don't pull your kid out of dance in December. Please don't. But anyway, and then you come back to this break.

And if we did break right, we're all a little bit out of shape because we needed the rest. And so doing the evaluation right then, it's just not my favorite time. I actually prefer to do it beginning of March is when I like to do my second evaluation.

And I do it then because again, we're at least six weeks back in, but we've got about six weeks before the end of your placement. So if I need to have a conversation with someone about, okay, look, we've been working on keeping your heel up on your pirouettes all year. And I see that you're working, but we are down to the wire.

You're going to get it now or you're not going to get the placement you're hoping for. And I will teach you and love you either way it goes out. But you need to know we are down to the wire.

They have time to fix it, but a short enough amount of time that if pressure helps them, it's there. And if pressure doesn't help them, it's also still there. I'm sorry.

Maia
You can't make everybody happy. And this is not a dig on anyone. I feel like the reason why when I was in college, I started to shift away from like the dance industry, I guess, you know, like I went into college, all bright eyed and bushy tailed. I'm going to work in the dance industry.

And then those four years I was like, I am not someone that wants that pressure, and I do not thrive off of it. Now, am I really good at motivating other people who do thrive off of that and who want it and working with them, and then also finding ways to inspire and work with the students that maybe don't want it? Yes, that's where I started to really get into dance education, be like, I think that's my place in this world, because you have to, I think, to be a dancer, you have to want the pressure and thrive off of it.

Otherwise, why? Why would you do it? Really, why would you do it?

Chelsea
Yeah. You have to be able to handle it. It doesn't matter how well intentioned everyone around you might be.

Tickets are already sold, curtains going up, you look good, or you get replaced. Because if you don't look good, the show doesn't look good. If the show doesn't look good, the tickets don't sell.

If the tickets don't sell, the studio or the company doesn't keep its doors open. It's not as arbitrary as it feels. It's just realistic.

Maia
Right. I'm thinking back to this too, like part of my collegiate dance program was in my technique classes, having formal assessments where it was like a test and part of it was written, part of it was like, you know, your knowledge of terminology. And then there was an oral part and then, of course, a performance part.

And that was usually like, how fast can you pick up this combination? And then how well can you do these technical elements, et cetera, et cetera. I personally have never experienced that in a studio setting, but I also have worked in primarily recreational studios. Have you worked with studios that do like a formal test, quote unquote, or are you usually doing assessments just based off of the work that you're seeing in the classroom on a week to week basis?

Chelsea
I've done a lot.

I've only worked in one studio that did a written portion of a test and it was vocabulary and spelling. Can you define it? Can you spell it? But they also had a dedicated vocabulary class once a week. So I wasn't the one teaching them any of that, but they did get tested on it, which I thought was interesting.

And it was a ballet school. In fact, it was so very much a ballet school they didn't even offer contemporary. So they had the time in their schedule to do that, which on the one hand is cool.

Like that's a layer of education that is really cool. But on the other hand, most people probably can't fit that in. I have worked at schools that do a formal exam at the end of the year.

It's a set class. It should be memorized. The teacher comes, presses play or tells the pianist, thank you, please start.

And it runs through and as the teacher, I don't think I've ever been so stressed in my life because you're in the room, you're expected to be in the room and you can't say anything. You can't give a thumbs up. You can't give like a little cue if they start to falter, like nothing.

You just have to stand there and watch the rocket launch. So I've done that. And then when I am left to my own devices, I will do an evaluation based on the accumulation of coursework that we've done the last nine weeks of classes or so.

I'll be like, this is where we're at. And usually when it's that kind of situation, I am making a recommendation to a competition team director who has already seen their jazz audition and is wondering, and then I'll make a recommendation. Yes, I think this person is ready to progress their ballet level.

No, I don't. And this is why. And when it's a no, then we can be like, do you think we can fix that in the summer? How important is that? Versus like it gets really tricky when someone excels at hip hop and doesn't seem to care at all about ballet, which is fine.

I get it. You're allowed to have your favorites, but like more than once, like the most common thing in a competition studio is to say this person's ballet is deeply lacking in these two areas. And like it's a fundamental issue.

And then you just know they're going to get bumped up because the team needs them to be in this higher level. And they are the best, like they are carrying the competition hip hop dance. And again, it's coming back to economics.

If we don't compete hip hop, then we're going to lose five dancers and then we can't make rent. Right. So it's incredibly frustrating.

Maia
Well, I was literally just going to interject. This has turned into a conversation about like some of the fundamental issues with the dance world, which is not what I was expecting to talk about.

But the lack of consistency, I guess if I had to like pin it to one thing, just the lack of consistency and kind of why I started the podcast in the first place, because I was like, how are any of us supposed to know what to do, especially if we're not in it every day as a career? And I kind of want to bring the conversation back to that with just a couple of additional questions. Like I said, I would circle back earlier in the conversation. So the first one is, well, I'll just use myself as an example, because that's an easy picture for me to paint.

So I'm a ballet, a modern teacher with primarily recreational students. And I see them for one hour a week. I am not going to do a formal test, or I'm not going to test vocab as much as I would love for them to get better with their vocab, because I only have that one hour a week with them.

I'm not going to give them numbers. I'm not going to do a real high stakes kind of formal assessment process. But I would never, ever close the door on any of my students having the potential to go professional or compete at a high level.

And I want them all to have that opportunity. And to say like, I am a dancer that can handle an audition. I am a dancer that can handle the pressure, that can handle feedback, because that's what they will be faced with in the future.

So what do you think are some things that recreational teachers, casual teachers, however they want to self-identify, could use in class that are practical, that are going to be able to be practically implemented within a recreational program?

Chelsea
You know, I think the thing that recreational or casual dance teachers do so well is that you guys are able to balance clean technique with informal joy, which is just this skill that I'm constantly in awe of. And if you like, it's amazing. And so every practical tip that I offer, I have to run through my head because I think being strict is joyful, but that's not going to help you.

But I think there's nothing wrong with having a mock audition day saying, you know, like some of you are going to want to do dance company or drill team in high school, and you're going to need to know how to audition. So I'm going to come in. It's going to feel weird.

I'm not going to act like Miss Chelsea. I'm going to act like audition, Miss Chelsea, and we're going to get numbers and there's going to be a clipboard and you're going to feel nervous because we're practicing feeling nervous. And then at the end of it, I don't know if your kids really like watching videos, have a six minute video party at the end, or give out certificates that you'd already made because you have time to make certificates of like most improved parrots or most supportive classmate or something so that so that you have the practice being scared and dancing anyway.

But then like the final thing is really celebratory.

Maia
Yeah, it also could be fun. Like if you are doing it in the recreational setting where the stakes are actually really low for the students to have something out of the ordinary where they're like, oh, I get to do an audition that could actually be really fun for them.

And also better than what I sometimes tend to do, which is like, go back and forth like the mayor in Nightmare Before Christmas or like, today you have a nice Miss Maia. And then it's like, I'm strict Miss Maia.

Chelsea
Oh my gosh, that's the best comparison ever.

Maia
Sometimes I do feel like I fall into that. So if I can, again, just be more consistent, let the students know which Miss Maia they're getting that day and what the purpose is behind it that it's not that I like you or I don't. I always love them, but it's like, this is what we're doing today. This is what we have to work on now. And that's why you're getting this energy at the moment.

Chelsea
I learned that from a teacher. I was taking an adult class and she came in and she's like, I'm pretty sure I sprained my shoulder. So if I make a grouchy face or a wincy face, you're dancing fine.

I just hurt. I did not realize how much I was an adult, an adult for crying out loud. I was raising my own children.

I feel like I should've had something handled at that point. But until that day, I didn't realize how much pressure I was putting on myself and gauging the facial expression of the teacher until in an adult class, the teacher was like, just blow off my face. It doesn't count.

Like that was paradigm shifting for me. I have had more fun in class consistently every day since. So like if we name for our students, which version they're getting, I think that that is maybe a life lesson.

Maia
It was really helpful to hear about your training and actually so impressive that you came away from that and became the teacher that you are now. Like you could have walked away and just like, let it sour your whole experience, but to want to be better and to want to make sure that your students don't ever have that experience. I have had similar experience.

Like my teachers would never be like, I'm having an off day, therefore don't let it get to you. Like they would just be nasty. And that we have got to break that cycle.

So I think like you said, naming that so important. This brings me back to one of the very early questions that formed in my head when you're talking about giving the written feedback. So I think we've established that is really important.

We want to give the students consistency. We want to give them written feedback if possible on their performance so they know what they have to work on. However, another thing as a casual dance teacher is I typically am only getting paid for my time in the studio, maybe a little extra stipend or whatever.

But in my experience, I am not going to get paid to sit down and write out a report for everybody. So what do you think is a fair expectation for a casual dance teacher to provide feedback to their students?

Chelsea
I'm so glad you brought this up because you should be paid for your time. I don't make my full teaching rate for doing evaluations, but I get admin rate.

And also I am told exactly how many hours. Okay, that was going to be my overachieve.

Maia
Yeah.

Chelsea
No, like any studio owner who's like, okay, I will pay a stipend or I will pay minimum wage. You really should be like, yes, it's how many hours I'm going to pay for because some of us are wordy. But I also have been handed sent a link and expected to do it for free.

And I don't appreciate it. And I understand that it's the reality. So if you are a casual dance teacher, not being reimbursed for your time, you need to be doing this because you want to, not because you think you should.

And if you don't want to, that's okay. You're not a bad teacher. You're not any less committed.

You don't love your students any less. You're just making a decision about what you're comfortable doing for free. And that is so important.

And I don't think in the dance industry, we talk about that enough either. Right. So if you don't want to, I am going to completely normalize it.

And if you need permission, here it is. I've given it to you. If you want to, if this makes your heart like happy and you're like, yeah, I want to do this.

I'm a big fan of templates and they don't have to be cute. I can tell you from experience, nobody cares if they're cute, which is good. I don't know.

Maybe they like them if they're cute. I've never offered cute one, but I would just come up with a template. And if the goal is to do it fast.

Also, another thing to keep track of is if you're printing this yourself, printing costs are real, right? So if you can't email it, just factor printing costs into, are you really okay in your heart doing this? And again, it's okay if the answer is no, but I will pick again, I always come back to a curriculum. I will pick what I think are the three most important things. So for me, it would be the key principle, the key vocabulary, and then probably one of the minimum expectations to advance or just do two.

That's fine. And then I have space at the end for a note. I always give a personalized note for every student.

So I would either, you can do it past sale on the three items and then a personal one sentence note. That'll get through really fast. You could do it on a ranking one through five, but set a timer for yourself.

My goal is to finish it because you do love your students and you do want to give all of this information and your time is valuable. It's okay to keep it short, but I would use the same template for the same class, both for consistency for them, because you know, they're going to compare. And also it just makes it easier for you.

Maia
Thank you. And while you're saying that, I also thought I want to interject this for studio owners, because we have also talked on the show before about like, your time is valuable and dance teachers should be advocating for fair pay. And I also understand how hard it is for studio owners.

And I think it could be very easy to be like, I don't have the budget for that. I don't want to say like, "No, you're wrong. You do have the budget."

But before you say that, I would just say, look at what it's going to cost you to pay admin rate to do assessments, alongside what you stand to gain financially from your own time being saved by not having a bicker with parents about their students placement, but having a formalized assessment process. I don't even want to know because I've never been in that position. But like text messages, emails, parents coming into your office or like trying to corner you after class, asking about placements versus like, this is a formal assessment and therefore they're in this placement that will cut down on your time.

And then it also staff retention because your teachers have a better idea of what's being asked of them. So then training time for new teachers if you know your staff goes elsewhere because they're not being compensated or because they don't have clear expectations and then student retention. Hello, as they're moving up and they have clear expectations, they're less likely to go somewhere else because you know, the grass is always greener if you don't know what it is that you're actually getting.

So that's just my other little addition.

Chelsea
Right. And studio growth.

Because if parents are happy, parents tell their friends. So you have an opportunity. I don't want to be like, oh my gosh, I don't want to be practical about it.

I don't want to look at it from all angles. But I've never I've never had a parent be upset that I gave them a written evaluation. I've had many parents be really excited about it.

Maia
I also wanted to ask you because I know that you offer your own curriculums. Do those also include assessment tools?

Chelsea
Of course. I have developed...also, thank you for mentioning that. I have developed lesson plan templates that are done by level. And then I also included blank ones in case people just want the formatting.

And I do sell those on my web store. But my store just gets so cluttered. So I've started doing things seasonally.

So I offer the progress report template in October and March and May, which is when I use that. But the curricula that I've designed, like I mentioned before, every level has a key principle, every level has one key vocabulary, every level has three minimum expectations to advance. Those are the three foundational things where if you don't have them, you won't be successful in the next level.

So all five of those could go into a progress report. And I also have every single unit has, I think it's three celebration points, things we have been working on for a few units, for example, Pirouette from 5th. If we introduce it in one unit, and then two or three units later, it comes up as a celebration point.

So that you can be like, it's a reminder to myself is what it is. For things that have gotten better so incrementally, we forgot how good we've gotten. You also could pull celebration points in if you wanted to take that approach.

Maia
Really fun. I love organizing stuff. Can you share with the listeners where they can find those on your website, as well as other ways they can connect with you.

And also, since we last talked, your book came out. Yay! Congratulations!

Chelsea
It did! Yay! My gosh. We're almost at the one year anniversary.

Maia
Oh my goodness. Well, congratulations on that. I wanted to shout that out. And then if you have any other projects that you want to shout out as well.

Chelsea
I have so many projects that I stress myself out. But the way to find all of the products that I've created is on my website, geekyballerina.com. I have a blog there that I publish weekly.

You also can sign up for my newsletter. Historically, it has come out once a month. I'm shifting into twice a month so that I can give follow-up information.

We introduced the concept of the first one two weeks later. Here's a deeper level if you want. And then I am not super active on social media anymore.

I still post on Facebook and Instagram. And I still respond to messages. But it's not where the stuff I'm excited.

It mostly is just telling people that, hey, I've got a blog and a newsletter. And I really love what I'm doing over there. I'm on TikTok, Geeky Ballerina.

Sometimes other useful TikToks. And sometimes it's me in my car going, you will not believe what the kids said to me today. But my book, yes, my book is called Artistry Inside Ballet Technique, Volume 1. In Volume 1, we talk about breath, somatic awareness, line, and musicality.

We talk about them in beginning, intermediate, and advanced classes. We talk about the theory behind it. There's a whole section of just bulleted ideas for class.

There's also recommended reading for all four of those topics. I love my book. I loved writing it.

I am technically working on researching Volume 2. But I have really high standards for myself. So it's taking a long time. But it is a process I didn't forget.

Maia
That is all very exciting. You shared one with us last time. But do you have another quote that you would be willing to share to close the episode?

Chelsea
Martha Graham once said, "Other people's opinions of you are none of your business."

Maia
Hello, everyone. I couldn't close the episode out without jumping back in and doing all of my thank yous and closing thoughts. And one thing that I wanted to share with you, if you are still listening, is I actually did cut some parts from this interview.

I know that might be hard to believe, because it's one of my longer episodes. But this was like the bare minimum that I felt like needed to be included in this episode. We had even more conversation and maybe some tangents, if you could call it that.

It was all good. But I was trying to keep it brief. So I did cut a few parts out.

And we still ended up with a really long and robust episode. But I hope you appreciated it. I feel like the conversation was kind of healing for me to talk to someone about some of the issues that we faced and some of the hardships and things that we feel like we need to do better in the industry.

It might not have been sort of the initial intent of what I set out to do with this episode. Like, my thoughts about what we were going to cover were a lot more compact. And then we turn it into this really big conversation.

But I hope you all appreciated it. I wanted to say thank you again to Chelsea for her time, because like I said, it was a pretty long interview process. And this is the cut down version.

So I really, really appreciate that. As always, I so appreciate GB Mystical for allowing us to use his music for the theme music for the show. And thank you to everyone in the Casual Dance Teachers Network.

If you have any questions or are looking for additional resources regarding dance assessments, feel free to share those there. You can also follow us on Instagram at the Casual Dance Teachers Podcast. And with that, I will let you go.

Thank you so much for joining us and listening all the way to the end and have a wonderful day.