The Casual Dance Teacher's Podcast

Maia
Welcome to the Casual Dance Teacher's Podcast. I'm your host, Maia. No matter who, what, or when you teach, I'm here to share all my best tips and tools, along with real and practical conversations with fellow dance educators to help you be the very best dance teacher you can be.

Let's talk about it.

Hello everyone, and thank you for joining me for another episode of the podcast. I'm super excited to be joined today by someone that I went to college with, a fellow Goucher College grad, Danielle Aliotta.

And we are going to be talking about a subject that I also really don't have any experience about, so I'm so excited to learn more. We're going to be talking about dance assessments. So before we get into that, let me give you a little bit more background about today's fabulous guest.

Danielle earned her bachelor's degree in dance and vocal performance, as I mentioned, from Goucher College, and she also has a master's in theater education from Adelphi University. Danielle is a member of the Actors' Equity Association and has performed at venues such as the Symphony Space, the John W. Engelman Theater, and the Ogunquit Playhouse. And as a choreographer, Danielle creates works for regional theaters, high schools, competition teams, and specializes in college pre-screen and dance reel choreography.

She currently teaches dance at Glen Cove High School and co-moderates the Derby Players at Chaminade High School. So as a high school educator, Danielle has lots of experience with assessing students' skills for grading as well as leveling and moving up to the next level, which, with my experience in a studio setting, again, I will sometimes weigh in on students' leveling, but it's not done in such a formal assessment way. So I'm very excited to talk to Danielle about this topic today and learn more myself.

Let's get right into it.

Danielle, hi! Thank you so much for being here.

Danielle
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Maia
Yeah, thank you again for doing this. And before we get into the conversation around dance assessments and assessing students, I just want to hear a little bit more about your personal dance background and also the styles and levels that you currently teach.

Danielle
Absolutely. So I am a New York-based theater and dance educator, choreographer, artist, and coach. I teach students of all age ranges and experience levels.

So students who are starting out at seven years old all the way up to folks who are entering the professional level. I have experience teaching all different dance genres and students who are at all different levels within those dance genres in both a performance-oriented aspect and a competitive aspect in school, like everyday school, and in a studio setting as well.

Maia
Amazing. And for today, I really am most interested in talking to you about the school setting just because I've never taught in a K-12 school setting. I've always taught in studios. So I feel like that's something that I can learn a lot from you about.

And I kind of want to start off, and my questions, again, are coming from not knowing anything. So someone that does teach in a school setting might be like, come on, Maia, get with it. My first question is just like, how do you grade students in dance in a school setting? I know it's a very broad question, but is there a specific criteria that's given to you or do you come up with the assessment criteria yourself? Can you just speak a little bit to that?

Danielle
Sure. So grading students in a school setting for a dance arts elective is usually formulated, at least in my experiences, around a assessment at the end of a unit of something we're working on in class. So it could be a range of different projects, not necessarily just performance-based. It could be a dance research, more like dance history-focused project.

It could be a paper. It could be a student's choreography that they came up with themselves. And my approach and the approach that I was taught through my master's program is to give students very clear criteria of what it is they are expected to present.

Here are the things we went over in the unit. Here are the things I would like you to do in your project, whether that's physically dancing, creating choreography, doing some research, doing a presentation, et cetera. And then they already know what are the components on a rubric I usually make of how they're being graded, to what degree have they gone into the project.

So I'm very transparent with my students of how I assess them and what the expectations are. So that's really how I approach grading. And everything is technical on a performance level.

I look at things like musicality and their timing, which kind of goes together with musicality. What was the accuracy of the choreography? Usually I work throughout a whole unit on the same thing. So it's something not new, something not that they've never experienced before, their performance energy.

I'm trying to think what else is on my rubric, but those are kind of the main points. There's some other things in there too, but very measurable goals that they can clearly understand and also see for themselves if they watch a video back of their performance of like, oh, I didn't quite apply my turnout throughout this whole combination. Or something, for instance, like that, I might take a few points off of based on their consistency throughout whatever the project is.

And that's more performance based though. But of course, a little more academic on the research and presentation side or paper side for their grading, most like other classes.

Maia
Are there specific New York State standards that you have to adhere to, like any arts electives have to get the students to master this, this and this by the end of the year?

Danielle
Yes. There are state standards for every art form that is taught in a school setting that students must be able to hit those objectives in different levels by the end of their high school experience. So they kind of break it up by grade level, what the objectives overall are. And then students should be able to insert the blank here by the end of the school year or by the end of their journey throughout the program as well.

Maia
So when the student, again, I can only reference my own experience at this point. And I'm thinking about when I did like chorus and band in high school, and it was everyone basically together. Are your classes that you're teaching like that, and then you just kind of have to work with each individual student gaining mastery within kind of the context of where they're at? Or are you teaching separate classes for separate levels of dance technique and ability?

Danielle
Mostly in my experience, all the students are together, but all the students have chosen to take the course.

So no one is there by default or being forced to take dance. They all have chosen. They want to learn.

And students are at all different levels within the course. Some of them have had some experience. Some of them have not had formal technical experience.

So it's very much knowing how to teach different levels within the same class and meeting the students where they are. Yeah, can you share any pointers on how you manage that? Because that maybe is not directly associated with, you know, the topic of like assessment and all of that. But man, that's, that's such a challenge.

And I think applies to the studio setting as well as the school setting. Do you have any tips? Absolutely. In a studio setting, I have taught mixed levels many times.

I also have had experience teaching mixed levels through some of the after school program work I've done with theater departments at high schools where I'm choreographing a big production number. And I have students who are dancers. I have students who've never even danced a step in their life before.

And how do we all come together and create this beautiful production moment? So kind of something I like to do in more of like a production setting is I like to group students together by their level. Like, where are they at? And sometimes I'll give different moments throughout the piece to different students. So students who are a little more beginner, they're going to have a little simpler choreography that they can absolutely handle, but challenge them that they will present all together in this number, and then have the more advanced students do something more advanced together.

Still challenging too for them on their level at another point in the number. So that's one thing I like to do to mix it up. I like to have a lot of groups coming in and out.

I also think it's more interesting than just having a giant group of students on stage, the whole number, and it gives the audience something different to look at as we work through. In class, it's a little more challenging because obviously in class, we're not working towards a performance. We are learning our technical skills.

So I'd like to remind my students who are a little more advanced in my class that it's always good to go back and revisit the basics to really hone in on, am I utilizing my turnout or my knee stretch? Am I pointing my toes? Is my alignment correct? Because if they have some knowledge of the steps that we're doing, they're not concentrating as much on what are the feet since they know the feet, but are you actually doing it on a technical correct level versus student who was learning that step for the first time who are like, I must get the feet down. And that's totally okay. They're working on the same exact thing, but they're approaching it from two different angles.

So I'd like to encourage my students a lot too that growth looks different on everyone. And that's something that I feel is really important to stress as a dance educator, especially that growth is a little separate from hitting our technical goals because growth on one student is going to look very different on another, especially if they're at a different level. And I kind of define that growth when I am assessing my students at the end of the year on how they have progressed is, are they able to do something at the end of the year that they could not do at the beginning of the year? And if the answer is yes, we grew.

Excellent. If we came an inch closer to mastering a technical aspect of what we're working on, excellent. If we mastered it, great.

That's all growth in my book and deserves to be celebrated. And I like to let my students know that. I think that's the biggest question I get in school and in studio settings as well, because I teach in both.

Did I get better from September? And the amount of students who have asked me that are so many. And my answer always is yes, you have. You have improved from September to June.

And we have made beautiful strides forward. And that looks different on everyone. And that's something that I would really encourage dance educators to share that with their students, if they ask, especially if they ask.

Give them a clear example of, this is how you've grown from September to June. This is something you've gotten better at. This is something that maybe was hard, right, when we started in September.

But now you're doing it. And you're doing it well. And really celebrating that is something that I think is really important too.

Besides then assessing, are we ready to go up to the next level or take a more advanced course, like at school? We're kind of re-pivoting back to your original question. There are courses that are considered advanced. But usually those courses would be reserved for, like, upperclassmen who've taken kind of prereqs leading up to that course.

Maia
Okay. So this is definitely bringing to mind something that I struggle with. So let's say I have a class and they all grew throughout the year.

Which if they didn't, then I fail. So everyone in the class grew throughout the year. But then next year, we're releasing, like, the levels for everyone.

And in my mind, now I've never done any kind of formal assessment, but typically the studio owner will say, like, who would you recommend to move up? Who do you think needs another year in this class? Let's say half the class I think is ready to move up and half stays back. How do you go about that? Still acknowledging that growth happened, but let a student know that they're not ready to move on to the next level.

Danielle
That's a great question.

And sometimes it's really, in a way, difficult to really let that student understand that it's not that you didn't grow all year because you have. It's there's certain technical skills, right? That they should be able to have mastery of before moving up to the next level. So we could build upon that.

So I would give them a very clear goal to work towards for next year of saying, here's all the beautiful ways we have grown this year, and that is excellent. But we're not quite ready to move up to the next level. And here's why.

I think if you don't give that student a clear why and something to work on and work towards, that's where you get upset students, upset parents who are like, I don't understand. How could I not move up? My friend's moving up, and I'm not moving up. And I think something really big to look at when I look at moving up students in a studio setting is consistency of their technical skills.

Where, for instance, in my beginner jazz class, by the end of the year, my goal was all my students should be able to do a clean, beautiful, single pirouette. Everything's in place, the passé, the arms, the relevé, everything. But if I have students who consistently hit that throughout the year, yes, we're ready to move on.

Because we have that consistency. We have the placement. We've got that locked in.

If I have a student who is inconsistent with that, like they can do it, but it's not consistent, then I might have them repeat the level again. But tell them, we really need to work on this. And until we lock it in, then we can move forward.

And sometimes, I think especially with the rise of social media and seeing all these dancers doing all this intricate choreography and tricks on social media, I feel like sometimes, especially younger students, don't understand the work that it took for that person to get to that point, where now they can execute all these fancy turns and jumps and tricks and things, where it takes time. And that's something I love to remind my students of too, especially if you're a beginner. No matter what age level they're at, it takes time to develop this technique.

It's a technique. It's not something you're going to go to sleep, wake up tomorrow and say, okay, I got my triple pirouette. It's great.

You know, it's going to take many years of practice and that consistency and dedication to building those skills. And I think that's a really big reminder I like to give my students of, it's okay if it's not cooking today. Let's come back and try it again tomorrow.

And you will get there. But just trust that if you put in the work, you'll get there.

Maia
Yeah. So in a studio setting, I think one of my fears is that I don't want it to feel too academic because a lot of these students are trying to get away from that. You know, they, they want to blow off some steam.

And even like the very serious, dedicated dancers that I see regularly and are progressing a lot, you know, just creates a lot of anxiety for them. I think to feel like they have to constantly progress. They're constantly being judged and all of these things.

So do you think that it is a good idea because of that aspect of wanting to be super clear and consistent about how to move up to share those specific goals with students at the beginning of the year? Or more so keep it as like a private internal evaluator when it comes to that studio setting and then just use that to share with the students if there are any questions about leveling or any pushback about not moving up?

Danielle
That's a great question. In a studio setting at the beginning of the year, because I try not to make it feel academic to them and that it feels more free and creative and open and a space obviously they enjoy coming to after school where they don't feel like I'm still in school, but they kind of are because they're in a classroom setting, even though it's a studio space. So I like to, in the beginning of the year in September, go through some goals or have students create their goals.

I'd say, what do you want to be able to do by June? What's something you really want to work on for yourself throughout the year? Most of the time students pick something technical of, oh, I want to really get my double pirouette down by June. And I'm like, great, love that. Or something they're like, you know, I sometimes struggle remembering the choreography.

I want to be able to learn it faster and remember it faster. Great, excellent. So things kind of like that.

I ask them to create that goal for themselves at the beginning of the year. I like to come back to it at the end of the year and ask them, how'd we do? How'd we do on that goal we set, day one? Most of them forget. I have to remind them.

Remember that index card I gave you? Most of them it's buried in the bottom of the dance bed, you know, and then they'll pull out that card and some of them will be like, oh yeah, I think I did it. And I'm like, yeah, you did. Or some of them were like, oh, I forgot about that.

And I'm like, yes, you also did. So, you know, but teaching them that accountability, I think is something that we as dance educators and also theater educators and arts educators in general, kind of really teach also our students, besides just an art form, of being accountable for yourself and being a part of the community that's our class.

So yeah, I love to have them set their own goals because then that's something too we could talk about if, you know, there is some ruffled feathers about what their placement is the following year. You can go back to what's that goal you set for yourself? And how do we do with that besides the goals of the class and of the level that they're at? Yeah, I try, I don't write it all out or do a whole overview on the first day or anything, like I would in school, just to have that the studio feel not academic or to get too academic.

Although some studios also like that too. Like, you know what I mean? I feel like it really depends on the environment and the vibe of the students and the place. I find competitive, like students who compete are a little more locked in on that level of like hitting all those things.

They want to, you know, get to the next level and they want to, you know, do all these things where students who are more recreational are a little more like we're here to dance and have a great time. We're still learning and we're doing stuff but it's a different feel versus students who are actively like getting on stage every few weeks and competing. It's just a different energy in the room and a different level, I feel too, of like structure as well in each of the classes.

Where yeah, I feel like recreational students are a little more free and open. We can explore this and have fun with this concept or steps or, you know, whatnot. Where yeah, our competitive students are a little more like, okay, we got to hit this, this and this and let's work on this routine and make sure we are ready to rock.

Maia
Yeah. And I know that there are studios that have very specific syllabus and they do formal assessments. Being the casual Dance Teachers podcast, I feel like that's not probably the majority of listeners and it's not my personal experience.

But again, I feel like it can make life so much easier for teachers to have some baseline criteria so they're not like personally responsible for each dancer's journey through the levels because then that can create a lot of conflict. And I'm curious if you also can share maybe some of the criteria that you have learned through the public school system or the private school system that you think could apply well to a studio that doesn't currently have a formal assessment in place, but could be implemented pretty easily, whether formally or even just in the back of teachers' minds, like here's some good criteria to be thinking about throughout the year.

Danielle
Absolutely. I think having students set goals for themselves is a great thing that people can do in a casual studio setting and for teachers to have their own goals by, okay, at the end of the year, students will be able to do all these four things maybe. Maybe don't have this laundry list of skills because then you might get a little too crazy trying to get all those things done. But having maybe three to four very clear goals for your students and then following their progress throughout.

And then at the end of the year, being able to look at that consistency and have that assessment, if you will, whether that's in a class or if you're going to use their performance as the assessment of how well they grasp those concepts if they're ready to move up or not. I think to students, and I remember feeling this way as a student, that something was wrong if you didn't move up at the end of the year. And the thing is, nothing's wrong.

You're just on your own progression and that's okay. And I think really reiterating that to students of like, you are going to improve on your own timeline and like, that's fine. Don't compare that to your friend who's might be on a different timeline as you.

You don't know. But being consistent though too with that criteria, I think too is really important of like every student is being assessed on the same exact things and really discounting to talent from that criteria of like it's a technical measurable thing that you can really look at all your students and say, okay, are you doing X, Y, and Z? Are we ready to build upon the skill regardless of what their talent is? I think too is really important to look at.

Maia
So I might be getting a little bit redundant here. I'm really gonna try and like pick every little detail out of this situation that I am talking about. So when we're talking about measurable goals, how specific are we talking? Could you maybe give an example just to help me wrap my brain around that? Cause I think it's really hard in dance to have measurable goals.

Danielle
Yes. Oh, it's incredibly difficult of like what constitutes as this measurable goal. I like to look at, when I'm looking at creating a measurable goal for my students, I like to look at something technical and then something also musical. Kind of two different elements to look at.

Like how's their rhythm, timing, musicality. Cause you can easily measure. Are they on the counts? Are they on the beat? Something very clear.

And then something technical of where we're using our turnout throughout this year. Where we improper alignment or something very clear that really has nothing to do with talent. Something technical and measurable of like there's a yes or no answer.

Is our passe always in the same place every time we do it? Yes or no. Um, and something very clear that you can measure on every student. And that's fair as well.

Something that's not going to be unfair to a student based on their flexibility, based on their strength. Something very specific. I think you have to be specific with that goal.

That measurable goal.

Maia
Picturing the passe example. So helpful. Thank you.

Because like my passe not very turned out. Let me tell you. But saying is your passe in the same placement every time? And, you know, can we measure like did it turn out a little bit more, you know, a little bit more on your standing lag? Those types of things.

That's super helpful. Thank you.

Danielle
Yeah, of course.

Yeah. And not saying, well, how far to the side was your knee the whole time? But are we going to where you have that turnout? Like where is your flexibility? Where's your turnout? Are we utilizing what we have fully every time? And I think that's where it becomes a little more individualized and really getting to know your students and what their skills are. Because then you can be able to then identify like with the posse.

Okay, are we always in that same, like find that perfect passe? And then are we hitting that for each student every time?

Maia
Perfect. Awesome. Thank you so much.

Danielle
Absolutely.

Maia
Rather than continue to dissect every element of this, like I said, I have been loving this conversation. I definitely feel like we could delve a lot deeper, but we'll stop there for now.

And I just want to kind of direct people to be able to connect with you who want to learn more, get additional coaching resources, et cetera. So can you share a little bit about how folks can connect with you from here?

Danielle
Absolutely. So you can connect with me on Instagram.

On my Instagram handle is DanielleAliotta_Choreo. And you can find lots of fun photos and video of my students doing what we do together in the studio there. And also other ways to connect with me on that page is the link to my website, which is just more about me, my training, my background, and specific things I teach and choreography specifics and my reels and all that good stuff.

Maia
Yeah, amazing. And just to reiterate, I know you do a lot of work in the theater space, which ties in with the dancing, but I just wanted to put that plug in there if anyone is specifically interested in theater choreography or work in theater realm.

Danielle
Awesome, thank you.

Maia
Yeah, thank you. And my last question always is, what is your favorite quote relating to dance?

Danielle
Ooh, one of my favorites, of course, is a Martha Graham quote because she is the queen. Great dancers are great because of their passion.

And I just love that quote. And it's so true because when you see someone who's so in their element and is expressing whatever the dance is about or whatever emotion they want to express or whatever story they want to tell, it's just really powerful to see somebody in that level of expression on stage or on film, maybe. I don't know.

We have different mediums now. But I think that's such a beautiful quote. And I like to remind my students that as well, is to show that passion.

That's why we're here. We're here because we love to dance and create art together or we love to do theater together. And to show that and not get so hung up too in all that technical work that we're doing.

Don't forget about the passion.

Maia
Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you so much.

Danielle
Yeah, thanks so much for having me. This was so fun.

Maia
Hello there again. This is Maia. Just wrapping up with another huge thank you to Danielle.

I learned so much not having experience in this field in the areas where she's working and really, really appreciated her insights and tips. I would also love to hear from you what you learned. If your experience is similar or anything that you do differently in your own experience, you can join us in the Casual Dance Teachers Network on Facebook to share those thoughts, questions, any other feedback that you have.

And also follow us on Instagram at the Casual Dance Teachers Podcast. A big thank you to GB Mystical for the theme music for the podcast. And I'll see you all next time.

Thanks.