The Casual Dance Teacher's Podcast

Maia
Welcome to the Casual Dance Teacher's Podcast. I'm your host, Maia. No matter who, what, or when you teach, I'm here to share all my best tips and tools, along with real and practical conversations with fellow dance educators to help you be the very best dance teacher you can be.
Let's talk about it.

Hi everyone, thank you so much for being here for today's episode. If you have not already listened to the first episode of season two, where I talk a little bit about what I personally have going on in my journey as a dance educator, I would highly encourage you to listen to that first, because it will give you a little bit more context for the conversation that I had with today's guest.

And as I also mentioned in that episode, the best laid plans of Maia Mahosky always tend to go in a totally different direction than I intended, much like this conversation. So I was super excited to interview today's guest. I wanted to talk about creativity and how dance educators can draw creativity out of their students, as well as how they can remain grounded in their own creativity, and how we can apply that to our greater lives in general.

And we did get into all of those things. However, before getting into all of that and kind of the planned questions that I had laid out for this guest, the conversation got super personal and I brought up what I personally was going through and asked for some insight and some help with my situation. And I got so much valuable insight and really basically like a personal coaching mini session, I would say, and I'm a little nervous, I have to admit to share it with all of you, because it's definitely not the typical tone of the podcast.

And I am sharing something very vulnerable. But as you'll hear coming up, we both agreed that sometimes having a really specific example and context to apply these lessons to can be really widely helpful. So I'm hoping that in sharing this, you all can glean something from it.

Before we dive right into that, of course, I have to formally introduce today's wonderful guest. For today's conversation, I'm joined by Jess Grippo. She's a dancer, writer, and creative coach who's the founder of Dance Again, an adult dance studio that helps people reconnect with movement and creativity.

She also founded Words That Dance, a boutique agency that helps creatives bring their true message to life online. Over the past decade, Jess has guided hundreds of people back to their creative spark through classes, coaching, and through her bestselling book. And she's helped over 90 businesses revamp their websites and messaging.

Her work has been featured by Women's Health, TEDxNYU, Lincoln Center, and more. So without further ado, join me in welcoming Jess Grippo to the podcast. Jess, thank you so much for joining me on the show.

Jess
Thank you for having me.

Maia
Yeah, I have been really looking forward to this conversation and kind of delving into different facets of creativity, which I know you kind of embody a lot of them. And I'm really interested to hear to start kind of what your personal journey with dance was and then how you branched into some of these different avenues exploring and coaching creativity, but keeping dance at the center of that.

Jess
Yeah. So my journey with dance, it started like many, a young girl in the United States maybe does or I don't know in the world, we're taking dance classes as a kid and having, you know, the dream to be a ballerina and getting pretty far down that path. I was in the pre-professional training program at the Joffrey Ballet School and I was like very like ballet, ballet focused.

And I ended up quitting when I was 19 and going to quote unquote regular college for a variety of reasons, which I'm happy to get into, but I don't want to take up all the time about that part of the story. But I didn't dance for like most of my 20s. And then probably when I was around 27, I don't know, I just kept seeing other people on Facebook, I guess it was at the time, whatever the social media platform was that was popular, people would be like posting about their dance class or what they were doing in their life with dance and I'm just like, oh man, like did I miss that boat? And there's a part of my soul that's missing because I'm not dancing.

And so that put me on a path to then find ways to dance again and in reviving my own path, which I did. Really, it started with just dancing alone in my room because I was too intimidated to take a class. I lived in New York City where there's so many classes you could take at any point.

But I was like, I feel out of shape. I don't know if I could keep up with choreography at this point, you know, and I don't want to do ballet. So I don't even know what style I would do.

So it came down to me just finding my own movement and doing it in a creative way. So I started making random dance videos and this was way before TikTok was a thing. But I just had this instinct to record myself dancing and do fun edits and just have fun with it.

It was a creative process that was coming back to me. After college and after kind of being in a day job that I didn't enjoy, I had sought the help of a holistic health counselor. Her name's Elisa Vitti, who now has a much bigger company than she did at the time.

But I worked on healing my PCOS, polycystic ovarian syndrome. And I was like, that was just inspiring me so much. So I went on a path to become a holistic health coach.

So I was active in the women's health coaching world around the same time that I was reviving dance. And that process of bringing my creativity back made me realize, huh, well, there's something to that, like there's something to my creativity that also affects my mental health, but also my physical health. And I started to want to weave that into the coaching that I was doing.

So little by little, I did. And then little by little, I started, I was like, you know, I think this is its own thing. I don't really want to talk about the specifics of nutrition anymore.

I want to talk about reviving our creative spark, whether that's with dance or anything else. So then I started on this path of becoming a creative coach. And I started a blog.

I started doing a monthly workshop. I signed on my first few clients and I just kind of grew from there. So it's been like this kind of very gradual, you know, many pivots, let's call them, in my path over the years.

And after doing the creative coaching for a number of years, then the dance started to become more prominent and I started teaching more dance classes. And then eventually I launched what I called You Can Dance Again, which has become now we just shorten it to Dance Again. And yeah, that's that's kind of the the origin story of it all.

Maia
Wow. So cool. Did you come up with like creativity coaching? I'm not familiar with that as being like a field.

Jess
Yeah, it was I didn't come up with a term. It was just at the time I wanted to pivot from the women's health coaching. And I knew like life coaching was becoming more of a mainstream thing back then.

Like it's not nearly to the degree that it is now, I guess. But I think I was just Googling like creativity coach. And I found there's a there's a guy named Eric Mazel, who he started like a creativity coaching certification.

And I ended up doing his program just to have a little bit of structure and, you know, some guidance in that area. But a lot of it combined what I also learned in my holistic health coaching school and that practice, like I had been working with people for a number of years at that point. So it was kind of, you know, a natural shift into that area.

Maia
OK, so with Dance Again, you know, when I first heard about this and looked into it a little bit, I get the idea like, OK, it's great to have a platform for adults to get moving again and have those classes. But it sounds like with your holistic health background and coaching background, is there a little bit of a deeper like health related goal? And can you talk a little bit about that and how you formed that through your program?

Jess
Yeah, absolutely. So we do offer just straight up dance classes right now.

We're mostly based in Brooklyn, New York, starting to get some things going in New Jersey where I'm living now. And we have like a teacher training that helps people start up their own classes in different places as well. So like there is this just the like pure dance class aspect of Dance Again.

But then I do offer some other, a lot of them are virtual types of programs where you can, reviving dance is part of like the bigger holistic picture of your life. And so I definitely weave in, you know, there's the creativity coaching in there because what I what I found personally, like part of my story was that it was like once I started dancing again in my own way, in a way that felt authentic to me and was creative and expressive, it affected other parts of my life. Like it wasn't just this isolated practice that I did, you know, in a room and then I left it there.

Like it was, you know, it obviously like I just told you, it affected my whole career. It affected my confidence, my relationships. I started to feel more comfortable in my body again.

So we also and that's where my coaching comes in more. So we're like, I'll do one on ones with people. And sometimes I'll offer group coaching that really combines all of that together where we're working on a personal growth journey that involves dance and creativity and getting back to yourself in that way.

Maia
I love that. So this next question, you can kind of handle however you want, because I don't want to seem like I like lured you on my podcast to try and use you. But I feel like I am maybe a really good example and we're recording this ahead.

But by the time it comes out, I will have released an episode that does explain a little bit about what I'm going through right now, which is that I have a lot of things going on in my personal life and I have a five year old son with special needs and just a lot of changes that led me to no longer be able to teach weekly dance classes. And that's still again, at the time we're recording this, like a very new thing and a lot of fear, I feel like because that's been such a big part of my identity and especially like putting that identity out into the world through the podcast. I'm like, oh, no, if I am not teaching weekly dance classes, am I losing a big part of myself by not having that? So I am wondering and again, you can take this wherever you want to, but do you have some tips for my specific situation or how how how can you help me?

Jess
Absolutely.

I'm so glad you asked that. And like, please use me like that's why I'm here. And I love talking about this.

And I think I think sometimes do like the more specific we can get with examples, the more helpful it can be to everyone. Yeah, like we all see a little bit of each other, you know, like if anyone who's drawn to this podcast, I'm sure we'll see a little bit of themselves in your story. So thank you for sharing it.

And I first just want to like honor you and see you in everything you're doing as a mom, as a creative human who might be pivoting slightly, but is still probably infusing your creativity and like a number of ways I'm getting teary eyed as I say this. I don't think that that part is acknowledged enough and it is everything and it is so much. And thank you for what you're doing and raising a tiny human in this world.

So now that I'm crying, until I became a mom myself, which was only about a year and a half ago, I knew all that, but I just feel it on such a deep level now because I'm also, you know, recently in the thick of it. But yeah, so and I know that, you know, I mean, it's probably like one of the biggest life changes we'll ever go through. And it makes sense, right, that things have shifted and dancing doesn't always look like what it used to.

So the first thing I would say is, A, do you, if you like really just kind of happen to yourself right now, what is it that you miss most about teaching a weekly class? I guess it was that.

Maia
Yeah. So again, this is pretty recent.

I think this is going to get super personal. Oh, but so my son has autism and he's nonverbal and. Sorry.

I really love like working with him, and that's part of why I'm stepping back from teaching so I can focus and I'm trying to homeschool him because I feel like I do really have, I would say, which is not something I'd probably say about myself before I had my son, but I have patience to work with him to try and draw skills out of him that I think, you know, more systemic academic settings, which can work for the vast majority, just are not designed for kids that need that added time and patience. So that's one of my big goals of why I'm stepping away from other things to focus. But I found it very fulfilling to work with primarily neurotypical students because I don't have that as a parent.

It was almost like this like surrogate, like I could give them goals and push them in a way that I can't with my son. And they would receive that information and actually sometimes do what I said. And that's maybe taking it to like a whole nother level that maybe not everyone can relate to.

But there is a little bit of a fear of my world maybe shrinking, not having that and being too hyper focused on just this one child in front of me that that that might be too specific, like to try and channel everything into that, that I might lose kind of the greater creative cloud that I had around me and had access to as a dance teacher.

Jess
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like the first thing that I would say, I think for your situation and for probably for most of us, especially those of us who are parenting, is that there there needs to be some boundaries with your time and maybe and I don't know what that looks like. Right.

And we can go into specifics if you want, but it may be more something to like marinate on of like as you take on this, you know, new, more focused role with your son, which is also, I'll reiterate, just like it's wonderful, even though I'm sure it's difficult and they're complicated and there's a lot going on. But I guess the first thing is like, when can you is it possible to get some help some time away? Like, what does that look like? Is it a couple of hours a week? You know, even if you're renting out a studio space and just sitting in there yourself and maybe you cry the first few times and that's all you can do. It's like making space.

And this is like in most things that I teach, it's like the first step really is like that making space, because if we don't have space, the have you heard of like the fertile void?

Maia
No.

Jess
So it's a term, I don't know where it originated, actually, and I should probably look that up. But the fertile void just means that in that emptiness, that's where possibility lies, right. So like if there's no space at all, there's nowhere for creativity to live. So like you won't, right. It's just kind of like and it doesn't have to be these huge moments either. It could be, you know, maybe an hour a week is even impossible right now.

And believe me, I get it. I've been in times recently where that was impossible for me. But is it 10 minutes during nap time or after he goes to sleep? Is it right where you're like where you're also not just jumping into other obligations right where, you know, I don't know if you have a partner or if you have like house tasks you need to do or like podcast stuff. Right. I'm sure there's a lot going on. So I think like carving out that sacred time for yourself, I think is probably like might be the hardest step there is.

But I would say that if you could do that, that would be a great starting place. And then I give you more from there. But does that sound possible?

Maia
Yeah, I think that is one of the things that I'm most scared of, because I think I kind of I felt like teaching those classes and choreographing dances for my students in the studio setting was like my creative thing.

And it was very fulfilling creatively. But one of the things that I kind of have been reflecting on and making this decision to step back from that is why am I reserving my own creativity to just fit within these parameters? And why am I feeling like if I step away from this one thing, this teaching weekly classes, that that means I'm no longer a creative. It'll open up time and space for me to have other creative outlets.

And it won't be structured in the same way. It won't look the same. It'll be very different.

But why am I so focused on like that being the one thing that has to be the creative outlet for me? So I'm still in the space now where I think I'm just sitting in like my my reservation and sort of hesitation of of what that might look like, because that's been the reality for me for so long. It's like I'm a dance teacher and I funnel all my creativity into that. And that's what it is.

But yeah, there actually is a lot more space in my life right now to explore other avenues. So I I appreciate you kind of bringing that to the forefront so I don't have to focus on just like the FOMO, I guess. Yeah.

Jess
Yeah. Wow. And I think that's such a wonderful observation.

And yes, like it's it's almost like this is opening up a new part of you and your creativity to live that you don't know yet. So it's probably scary because you don't know what it looks like yet. And then you're also the part that is easy to skip over that I don't think we should skip over is the grieving of that past identity.

And it doesn't mean you can't go back to it. It doesn't mean that it's not still a part of your identity. But that's why I'm saying making space is the first step, because you might find that if you have like once a week, that dedicated, creative time block for yourself once a day, if you can, I don't know what it is, it's different for everyone at different phases of our lives.

Yeah. But if you have that, that's why I said you might just cry the first few times you have it, because like because you need to grieve. You need to like acknowledge what you've been doing and the fact that that specific thing isn't in your daily, weekly life at the moment.

And it might go back to it, but like you might even want to set up a ritual for yourself where you like, I don't know, have a photo of yourself teaching. And the same way I was speaking to you at the beginning earlier, right, of just acknowledging you and who you are and what you're doing, right? Like acknowledge that part of you, like make peace with her, like have that be part of your process. And then from there, it is kind of scary to be in that in-between of like, what is next and who am I now and what do I want to do creatively? And that's where we can tap into our bodies and our creativity.

So sometimes for trained dancers, this can be harder. Like, I think it took a while for me to get into it. And with people I've worked with, I've noticed this, that sometimes when you have no dance training experience, it's easy to just be like, yes, I'm going to improvise.

I'm going to get my body and I'm going to move stuff through me and then I'm going to do some writing and it's going to be great. Right. But those of us who have training, there can be that perfectionist cloud around us that's like, wait, I'm supposed to just move how I want to right now.

Well, what does that mean? And should I do a plié or what should I, you know, how do I how do I do that? Right. How do I let myself, how do I let my body lead the way rather than my mind telling it what to do and fitting into this specific technique, right, that I've studied for so many years. But when you challenge yourself to get into that type of dancing, that's more intuitive.

It does it. There are studies that it creates new neural pathways in our brain, which creates new ways of thinking, which then like, I really love the combo of freestyle dancing like that with writing and journaling, because if you do some journaling after you move for like five to ten minutes, it'll open up new things, new ideas. So I would say for you, like, get into that type of dancing and writing practice once a week, even.

Right. It doesn't have to be a ton of time, but, you know, replace your old teaching with that for yourself of like a dancing and writing. If you need some guidance, I have a number of some of them are free.

I have a free 13 day called Dance Alone Together. And every day it gives you a prompt to dance with and to write with for 13 days. So that could be a way that you start.

I have another one called Dance Into Your Answers. That's similar vibe, but a little bit more specific to like unlocking answers within you. So that could be something else.

But I would say, like, if it helps, try out one of those and and just give yourself that gift of space and movement. And then call me up in like a month and let's see where you're at, because I think having a little time in that zone is probably going to open up a lot. And then from there, you might start getting new ideas or like you'll be more in touch with your desire of where it wants to move you next and what's going to feel good for this next phase.

Maia
Hello again, it's Maia following up post interview to wrap things up for today's episode. So as you may have guessed, my conversation with Jess did continue from this point. However, for the sake of the podcast, I decided to keep this part of the conversation, its own episode, where we're really reflecting on.

This very specific situation, which happens to be my own. And just as response to that and the insights that she gave me, which I just have to express again, I'm so grateful for it was genuinely a very healing process for me. And I gained so much just from this part of the conversation.

So I do hope that you all also gleaned from it and learn from it and feel just as validated and encouraged by hearing it. But kind of selfishly, I am just so grateful that I had that opportunity. And if you're wondering like, okay, what are some of these larger applications for these lessons, because probably by and large, you can't relate to my experience, you know, it's very unique.

So if you have your own experience, and you're still trying to process how these tools can relate to you, and how you can also pass these tools on to your own students, we did get into that in the next part of the conversation. And that will be coming in a future episode, I have some other fun things to share with you in the meantime, so you'll have to stay tuned for a little bit before you can hear the rest of the conversation. But of course, keep coming back every Friday, and we will be sure to share the rest of the conversation and a lot more insights from Jess Grupo with all of you.

Now, if you like to get reminders, share feedback, tell us a little bit more about maybe your own personal experiences and how we can apply these tools to you, you can join me in the Casual Dance Teachers network on Facebook. And also follow me on the Casual Dance Teachers podcast Instagram page. We're still kicking off season two.

So if you could go ahead and leave a review for the podcast as well so that we can continue to grow our audience throughout this new season, and share these wonderful lessons and conversations with any and every dance teacher that needs to hear it, that would be so appreciated. And of course, we appreciate GB mystical who wrote the theme music for the show. Thank you all again, and I will talk to you soon.