The Casual Dance Teacher's Podcast

Welcome to the Casual Dance Teachers podcast. This is your host, Maia. If you're like me, sometimes we have those days where we're teaching our students.

I don't know if you teach preschoolers, if you teach high schoolers, middle schoolers, somewhere in between, but sometimes I have those days with my students where I'm like, Oh my gosh, I wish I was teaching full grown adults right now. And if you've ever had that thought, you are going to love today's topic. I am talking with a very special guest, Lindsey Dinneen, about her work with teaching classes for adult beginner students.

Lindsey Dinneen is a seasoned dance leader bringing to the show today years of expertise as a professional performer, choreographer, educator, and administrator. As the founder and artistic director of Vida Dance Company, she built and led a successful nonprofit dance company, producing award-winning performances and overseeing marketing, fundraising, and outreach. Additionally, as the founder and owner of Vida Dance Studio, she developed a thriving dance education business, crafting innovative curriculum and creating a studio culture focused on excellence and inclusivity.

She has over 10,000 students enrolled in her online dance technique, fitness, wellness, and business courses, and was the creator and faculty instructor of a community colleges adult continuing education dance program for seven years. Beyond her extensive dance career, Lindsey is a seasoned business consultant dedicated to empowering dance studio owners to build and sustain successful businesses, leveraging her MBA and MS in management and leadership. She specializes in branding, marketing, operations, and strategic growth.

Lindsey is passionate about helping studio owners streamline their processes, increase profitability and create the thriving studios they envision. Lindsey's mission is to bridge the gap between artistic excellence and business success, ensuring that dance organizations not only survive, but truly flourish. And as we get into it in a minute here, I'm going to be talking to Lindsey about both the practical elements of teaching adult populations dance classes, as well as how that can be a useful business tool.

So let's hop right in. Thank you, Lindsey, so much for being here.

Lindsey
Thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to be here.

Maia
Yay. So I want to hear first a little bit about you. I know we're going to be talking about teaching specifically adult populations. So if you can tell me a little bit about your background and the journey that took you into teaching adult classes.

Lindsey
Sure, I'd love to. Well, I'll go right back to the beginning. So at four years old, my mom showed me a video of the Nutcracker. And I fell completely in love, not exactly with the movement and ballet, but with the tutus and tiaras, which feels natural.

And I've never really stopped loving tutus and tiaras. That's still something I would do any day, dress up and put on a ballet. But I started taking classes at a really young age, really focused on ballet.

And then as I was growing up, you know, started expanding into other things and got eventually into high school and started looking at college programs and thought, I really want to do this. I want to make this a career. I'm not quite sure how or what that's going to look like, but I'm really passionate about dance.

And so I started going towards the pathway of getting my degree in dance. So I went to Mercyhurst University and got my degree in dance there. Right after that, I actually auditioned while I was still in school for a professional company based out of Kansas City.

I was offered a position there. And so sight unseen, I moved halfway across the country to Kansas City with very little money and a lot of gumption and big dreams. And so I started there.

I was dancing professionally for a company there. And at the same time, I started my teaching career as well. And I got into teaching mostly at the time, ages three to 18, say.

So it was a few years into my career where I noticed that the community college that was based pretty near where I was located, had some really great programming for adults. What they didn't have was anything dance related. And at the time, I guess I was young enough and ambitious enough and maybe goofy enough to go, you know what? I could do this.

Let me apply and just see what they say. So I sent an email to the administration and I said, hey, here's who I am. I would love to offer some dance classes as part of your continuing education program.

Would you be interested in that? And to my great surprise, they said, absolutely, yes. Let's have a conversation. Let's see what that might look like.

And so that led to a whole series of, you know, it's academia. So it's a very long process to get involved. And it was fantastic.

I went through several interview rounds. I went through a class sample, had to submit sample curriculum, all sorts of things. And then started teaching and leading this dance program.

And it just started off with one ballet course and one tap course, beginning students. But they were all adults. And this was a brand new thing for me.

I hadn't taught adults specifically before, especially not beginning adults. You know, I'd taught some company classes and things like that, but that's a little bit of a different story. So this was my first foray into how do I translate all the skills that I know and do it in a way that people who maybe this has been a lifelong dream of theirs to get to dance, but they've never had the opportunity, how do I make them feel comfortable and confident enough to step foot in my classroom and then have a good time? Because it is uncomfortable, right? I mean, it's learning a brand new skill.

It feels very exposed. Gosh, you're in front of mirrors. There's a lot that you have to kind of overcome to take that first step.

So I was always really passionate about figuring out, OK, how do I do this? How do I make people feel comfortable? And then let's just translate that. And so that was my foray into it.

Maia
Wow. When I think beginner dancers, the first thing that my mind naturally goes to is like, you know, your little three year old that loves the tutus and tiaras like you and wants to like be doing double pirouettes. And I'm like, well, we're doing tendus or whatever it is. I'm sure you have an element of wanting to like be able to dance all of a sudden with the adult population.

But how do you get the pacing down that they don't feel like you're like condescending and teaching them at a preschool level, but that you are working just those foundations with technique?

Lindsey
Yes, that is such a great question. And I so appreciate you bringing it up, because I will say there is a lot of difference between teaching adult beginning students and teaching children beginning students. And, you know, there's a lot of different approaches.

There's different mindsets, of course. I think for me, what I have found is I approach those classes as if the entire group of students were my friends, which is a funny thing, because I never do that with the children I teach. You know, there's a there's a clear separation.

But with the adults that I teach, it's a very different kind of interaction. I want them to feel very respected, very valued, very seen. I want to make sure that they are comfortable.

So, for instance, I put into my classes some things that I think really help contribute to that and help not feel condescending. For example, there are people like myself that would dress up in a tutu and tiara every day if we could. But there are a lot of people who absolutely have zero interest in that.

They don't necessarily feel comfortable wearing a leotard. So that's not even a component. If they want to, great.

Otherwise, it's comfortable fitted athletic wear, move in a way that makes you feel comfortable. So I think the first thing is setting the stage so that they don't feel that they are coming into an atmosphere where, oh, you have to use a uniform. You have to do this or that.

You might be thrown into a class with teenagers or kids much younger. No, this is designed for you specifically. So I think there's a lot of that.

But I will say, in terms of translating the pacing, it is similar. Adults learn faster than a three-year-old, of course. And so we're able to accomplish a lot more every single week than, say, your three- and four-year-old baby classes are.

They are very good at accepting corrections and really internalizing them a lot faster, and that enables you to go quicker, too. But there is a lot of kind of similar hand-holding, so to speak, at the beginning, where I do the exercises with them all the time. That really helps for them to have someone to watch.

It helps to make them also feel like I am a part of the group. Again, sort of that friend level, like, hey, this is something I love that I want to share with you. And it's something you care about.

So let's just do this together. Let's just go on this journey together. And then with that, though, I will say what's so funny is a lot of the illustrations that I use for my preschoolers, I use for my adults.

And I always caveat. I say, you know what? When I'm teaching the babies first, second, and third arabesque, this is the structure that I tell them. And then I give the illustration.

And they think it's funny, because they are silly, and they are funny. But I always caveat and say it's something like that. Hey, here's my philosophy about this.

Here's a way to think about it in a different way. I teach my younger ones this. You might find it enjoyable, too.

And oftentimes, those same illustrations resonate. I just am always really careful to, again, speak to them in a very, you know, we're on the same plane here. I am not above you.

I am not different than you. Sure, I've had the experience. I have the training.

But we're in this together.

Maia
Yeah, so perfect segue into my next question. Are you also doing, like, games and activities with them? I mean, it sounds like it's a fun vibe. But are they kind of more looking at it as a, you know, this is an exercise class, and we just want to work and do exercises? Or are there also elements of the games and activities like you do with younger beginners?

Lindsey
Great question. Yeah, you know what? I have never really introduced those elements of sort of games and activities like that into my adult classes for the reasons that you specified, mostly because I've noticed that the students that are coming in are usually kind of one of two camps. Either they had always hoped to do this as a kid and perhaps never had the opportunity, so this is finally their chance.

So they are dedicated and serious, like, how do I do this technique? How do I learn? How do I improve? And or they're returning adults who maybe did dance as children but didn't continue with it. So they've got a basic understanding, but they're not, say, pre-professional or any of that kind of level. They're not at an advanced level.

They might be intermediate or below that. So with those two camps, what I've noticed is both of them are there for a very specific reason. Like I said, sometimes it takes a lot to overcome just to step foot in the studio.

What are other people going to think of me? Am I going to be welcome? Do I have to wear that tutu? Things like that. And so I think it's really important to create that atmosphere of, you know what, we're going to put a lot of seriousness into this, but we're going to have a lot of laughter along the way. I'm always giggling and I'm laughing at myself constantly.

Like, you know, I'll make a mistake and I'll admit it, obviously, and say, oops, that's not like this, but here's actually how you do it. I think being really real and having those just fun connections with people, it makes it so much more enjoyable. So we have a good time, but I wouldn't say we ever necessarily do specific dance games or activities.

Maia
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You said you started out with just one or two adult classes. Do you now have multiple different levels with beginner, intermediate, and advanced adults?

Lindsey
Great question. So that particular continuing education department that I was a part of and created the program for, we did. I was there for seven years. I have since moved out of the state, so I don't run that program anymore.

But at the time, yes, we ended up being able to do level twos for almost all of the classes. We expanded and included jazz. So we had a ballet, tap, jazz, and then we had those level twos of each one of those as well.

And so I would say that would be like very, very beginning, basic for level one. Like it was designed for someone who had literally never stepped foot in a classroom before. So very, very basic to level two was like, okay, you've got the basics down.

Let's go a little faster, but kind of advanced beginning still. And so that was that program. Now I've taught many other places since then as well, and they always vary.

It kind of depends on the program. Most of the time, I have personally witnessed that in many studios that I've taught at with their adult program, it is still usually that sort of beginning to intermediate is where most of those friends want to be. And sometimes the adults that have had a lot more experience actually do enjoy joining the teenager classes that are advanced because that gives them an extra push and motivation as well.

So it's an interesting dynamic how all of this kind of ends up fitting together.

Maia
That really, I think, was what I was leaving into was this question of like, it's got to be hard if you have someone that danced for like 10 years, but then took 10 years off and is coming back alongside someone that's never danced and used any dance vocabulary ever before. Is that a big challenge with those classes as mixed levels?

Lindsey
Yes, it absolutely can be. I think, you know, I'm really, really passionate about this also as just I could go on a soapbox, so I'm gonna I'm not but I want to put something out there that I think is critical for everybody to know dance teachers, you know, studio owners, anybody, anybody who's running a business, especially a service-oriented business, setting up expectations from the start for yourself and for the experience that your students will have is critical. So what I always did was say in those level one classes, I would always say this is literally designed for somebody who has never stepped foot in a studio before. We will go over absolutely everything.

Then with the level twos, it was kind of like this is designed for somebody who's either taken my level one course or another course or class that will enable them to understand the fundamentals and basics. And then we will build those skills from there. So to me, it's always really important about establishing that.

And then I will I do and I have had students who are in that boat where they've had 10 years of classes. They come back. They do know the fundamentals, but it's been a minute and they realize, hey, I'm going to be in the class learning all the same stuff at the beginning.

But sometimes they want to like they want to really hone in correct technique and go backwards to go forwards. So it is an interesting element. Something that I always do with my classes, too, are when I have those mixed bigger groups, I will often say things like, OK, so, for instance, with ballet, OK, we're at the bar.

We're going to do our plies. All right. I'm going to demonstrate with the arms.

You are welcome to just leave your arm in second or put your hand on your hip and not think about it at all. However, if you're comfortable with this, here's the arms that I would love for you to incorporate, or here's the head that I would like you to incorporate or things like that just to give another element or say when we're balancing. Hey, if you've not balanced before on one foot, I'd like you to keep your supporting leg flat.

You will just balance here and we'll see how that goes. Let me go around and fix problems. If you are feeling really confident, go ahead and try being on releve.

So I think there's a way to do it where you can give options and adults. They're smart, capable, awesome people. They know.

They know what their limitations and when they want to challenge themselves and when they want to hold back. So I just kind of let them take it from there. I give them options and let them run with it.

Maia
Do you also ask them for feedback on what their personal goals are and what they want to get out of the class? Are you generally trying to kind of take it at the beginning, say this is what everyone's going to do and assess from there? Yeah, great question. I think a little bit of both. So, you know, with the very beginning classes, I think sometimes they don't even know what their goals are yet.

It's sort of like, let's see if this is a match for me in the way that I have always envisioned that it would be versus when they're in that level two and beyond class. I think that's at that point where I can go, OK, what are you really curious about learning? Do you want to work on turns? Are you just wanting a good workout? Are you interested in more cardio? Or, you know what? Hey, are we dealing with an injury from a while ago? And you need to be really gentle on your knees. So we're not going to jump for you.

We're going to do something different. So, yes, I mean, I guess yes is the overall answer, but I think it depends. I often find that a little bit more of leading with the very beginning students is helpful for them to kind of establish that and then go from there.

Maia
OK, great. So I'm going to pivot a little bit away from just how you teach the class.

Lindsey
Sure.

Maia
I know some people listening. I shouldn't say I know, but I'm going to assume that some people listening have their own programs, their own studios. And it's so phenomenal that you just like made this happen for yourself.

You saw an opportunity and you said, I am going to fill this gap. I'm going to do this and build a program out of it. And I'm sure more people could do that.

So my next question is more about the business side of things. I know that you are a business coach and you help studio owners and dance business owners with that aspect. So what are some of the opportunities with adult populations that you think more dance business owners should be taking advantage of? And what's a good kind of maybe first step to explore if that's right for you?

Lindsey
Yeah, I love that question.

First of all, I'm going to say, please do explore it. So let me just caveat a smidgen. So after I left Kansas City, my husband and I embraced the digital nomad lifestyle.

We had fully remote jobs and we've been able to travel and work wherever we are. So while we were doing that really intensely, we were all over the place, literally all over the world. And I would go and take classes almost everywhere that I could.

But here's the thing. So many times I would encounter these situations where there was literally nothing available for adults at all. And that's just honestly a gap in the programming that you could be offering.

And I found that typically it takes some time to build the momentum of an adult program. But if you are dedicated, if you're willing to work with just a couple of students at a time and then build on that, those programs can become huge, especially because you're not likely to have a lot of competition for it in your area. So I would first start with just do some research.

If you're interested in incorporating it into your program, take a look at what's already around you. Are other studios in your area doing it? If so, how are they doing it? Sometimes they might be in a position where they're offering classes, but they're more advanced classes or they're just for professionals. Okay, great.

Well, then why don't you take the beginning students and offer something for them or vice versa? It could work either way. So start with just some basic market research. What's going on in your area? Where are the gaps and how could you maybe fit in? And then from there, there's some nuances with offering adult classes that are different than with normal children's classes.

Some of those things are not all adults are going to be able to commit to a full semester of classes. In fact, many aren't. Some of them will be happy to commit to, say, an eight-week session.

And some of them actually might need even more flexibility than that. Punch cards or drop-in rates or things like that that do not lock them into a firm commitment for the entire semester or year or big chunk of time, but do allow for the fact that, hey, they've got other things in their lives. They're adults and they can't necessarily commit to coming every Monday at 7 p.m. And then I would say there's lots of ways that you can really grow this business organically.

Word of mouth is obviously always the best, but then you can leverage partnerships and even swap opportunities with complementary businesses. So things like there's many corporate wellness programs out there. There are gym memberships, things where you can partner with local businesses and organizations to perhaps cross-market, because these are people who are already interested in fitness and wellness, and see about creating maybe a class designed specifically for them at their location or offering some kind of incentive like, hey, you're a part of XYZ Gym.

Come take our classes. Come try our classes for 50% off or whatever you want to do. So there's a lot of ways that you can incorporate classes and make it really a great part of your programming, a very profitable part of your programming.

But I would say start with your research, then make sure that you're really catering to adults. So you're fitting in with their lifestyle needs. And then leverage some strategic partnerships and do those collaborations in your area to grow that program a little bit faster.

There's so much opportunity there and I would just highly, highly encourage looking at it because it's there.

Maia
Yeah, I feel like adults probably are more likely to want to have another friend do the class with them and not just go in on their own, which from an income perspective, if you can make that happen where you have a few core people that are going to bring their friends with them so that they all have their emotional support friend in dance class, then that's great. And you can grow it more quickly.

Do you think that most adults want to perform and having performance opportunities for adults is a plus? Or do you think that most adults would shy away from being involved in a recital or performance opportunities and would rather just take class?

Lindsey
I love this question. And it is so interesting because you get such a mixed bag. I will say the majority of adults that I've taught don't really have an interest in performing.

You know, they're trying to get comfortable. They're trying to feel good. And that's a big step from, you know, hey, I'm going to take the brave step of going into the studio and putting myself out there and learning in front of other students who are in the same boat to now I'm going to be on stage and there's people watching.

And it's just a lot more. It's a lot more to overcome. I do try to encourage my adults to embrace those opportunities.

And, you know, it's like you remind the children too, if they're nervous, you say, you know, these people are here to support you. They love you. They want the best for you.

They are rooting for you. They are on your side. So I think there's a very similar approach to how you kind of coach through those maybe anxieties and fears.

But it is interesting that a lot of adults aren't necessarily interested in performing and you sort of have to gently introduce the concept and kind of nudge towards it. And then you've got those born performers who are like, yes, give me the top hat and the cane. Let's go tap dancing across.

You know, it's such a mixed bag. But I think, again, that goes back to fitting into their lifestyle. Don't require it.

Don't set that expectation that they have to do it. Give them the option. Give them the opportunity and see when they're going to embrace it.

Maia
Awesome. Yeah. I'm actually in an adult class at my studio. Yes. And we collectively, like, are obsessed with, we're like, we're the stars of the show. We collectively just, like, lean into it so much.

Coming from that, I'm like, that can't be everybody's perspective. I think we just have developed our own culture within that class, which is amazing. And I'm so glad that we have.

But I'm sure there's others that are like, oh, no, this is way too much. These old ladies are way too into sequins.

Lindsey
I'm so in love with that, though. It is literally my favorite thing. Getting to see adults perform and just embrace it. And, like, their smiles are so genuine because they are so there. I love it. It's fantastic. Well, thank you so much for sharing that.

Maia
And I almost feel like, oh, I really want to get more, especially into picking your brain about the business aspect, because I can tell you have so much there that we could be unpacking right now. But I am going to wrap it up. I don't want to go on too long or get into too many different topics, but I'm sure people are going to.

So how do they then follow up with you? How do people connect with you from here?

Lindsey
Oh, great. Yeah, absolutely. I would love to have a conversation with anybody at any time, anything dance related.

Just, you know, that is what inspires my soul. So I love sharing and talking with anybody. So please, any time, reach out.

You can always email me. It's just Lindsey. So my first name, L-I-N-D-S-E-Y, at onpointebusinessconsulting.com. And the point is with an E because, you know, point, naturally.

So onpointbusinessconsulting.com. So you can always connect with me there. You can technically look me up on social media at Lindsey Dinneen Official, but I will say unless you private message me, I'll never see anything because I am so not on social media. So you can private message me too.

Maia
Yeah. Before we officially wrap up, do you have a favorite quote that you could share with us as well?

Lindsey
I would love to, and I hope you don't mind it. I'm actually going to pick something that I was journaling about a while ago.

This was a while ago. I was, just to give a little bit of context, kind of thinking about what's next? Where do I want my career to go? Where do I want my life to go? There was a lot of things sort of up in the air and I was just sitting down to journal and something kind of came to mind and it has been something that I've come back to a lot of times. So it's not a famous quote.

Nobody would know it, but if you don't mind, I would love to share that.

Maia
I would love that. Please do.

Lindsey
Yeah. So in my writing, what I finally came to after kind of a lot of soul searching is, it is not my circumstances that choreograph my life. It is my attitude and the way I respond that determine whether I give up dancing altogether or come out dancing stronger.

Maia
Hey, it's Maia again. I hate to even butt in here because I'm so grateful that Lindsay was vulnerable enough to share that beautiful quote with us. And that really still has me thinking and reflecting on my own journey and how that relates to my own life.

So I hate to come in and just do my spiel while you're all thinking about that beautiful and eloquent quote, but put that on the back burner for one second. Of course, give another round of applause to Lindsay. Thank you so much for joining us and talking about this topic today.

And thank you to GB Mystical for the theme music at the beginning of the show. I also want to thank all of my friends on the Casual Dance Teachers Network on Facebook and invite you to join me by following the Casual Dance Teachers podcast on Instagram. As always, I would be super grateful if you could leave a review for the podcast on whatever platform you're listening on and be sure to tune in next Friday for our next episode.

Thank you so much.