The Casual Dance Teacher's Podcast

Maia
Welcome to the casual dance teachers podcast. Today's episode is such a great one, guys. I'm so excited for this. Many of you I've connected with through social media, so it's kind of ironic that one of the big conversations that I see come up over and over again among the dance teachers in these online communities is how harmful social media can be for our students and their perception of what constitutes great dancing or goals that they should be working towards.

I've been following today's guest for several years now, and I just knew that she would be the perfect person to talk to about this, having some insider insight. On being in the world of social media and being an influencer and having lots of followers as a professional and classically trained ballerina.

Today's guest is Alicia Mae Holloway and some of you may already know her from her super popular TikTok and Instagram accounts. You might have seen her on a season of The Bachelor previously, but I'm going to focus on her dance resume because Alicia is not just an influencer. She's not just a big star on social media. She has the dance cred to back it up. Alicia is originally from Morgantown, West Virginia, and began dancing when she was three years old at Cat Company Dance Studio. In 2007, Alicia began taking classes at Morgantown Dance Studio. She also trained at Central Pennsylvania Youth Ballet and the University of North Carolina School of the Arts before attending the School of American Ballet.

From 2011 to 2015, Alicia has attended the Boston Ballet Summer Dance Program as well as Pacific Northwest Ballet. She began her professional career dancing with the Suzanne Farrell Ballet and completed dancing her seven seasons with the Dance Theater of Harlem. where she worked with Alicia Keys, Aretha Franklin, and Gladys Knight.

She has shot music videos with Grammy award winning artist KEM, as well as Jagbag and Aaron Martin. She has been in Point, Dance, Dance Spirit, and Glamour magazine, and was on the cover of People magazine's Winter Spring 2023 Health Edition. She served as a co chairwoman of the School of American Ballet's Visiting Faculty Program for two years, And recently came off of the show as the principal role of Lena in Josh Bergasse's Sugar Hill, the Ellington Strayhorn Nutcracker.

Oh my goodness. I could not be more grateful that Alicia took the time to have this conversation and be here today. So let me not delay this conversation any further and welcome her to the show. Welcome, Alicia. Thank you so much for being here.

Alicia
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. I'm super excited.

Maia
So, I don't even really know where to start, but I'll just address the elephant in the room, which is that despite you being a professional ballerina and having, like, an amazing resume, I first found out about you because I watched The Bachelor. I kind of pinpointed you as someone that can speak not only, of course, to like the professional dance world, but you have an idea of what it's like to have like followers from outside the dance world and have a social media presence and all of that.

Which I admittedly have kind of hated on on the podcast. Like, oh, TikTok is so bad for dancers.

Alicia
Yeah, I, which I, I, I agree to some extent. I totally agree with that. So yeah, no, I totally get it. Yeah.

Maia
That's really what I want to get into with you kind of having a different perspective. Before we start, can you kind of fill me in on what your rise as like quote unquote influencer looked like?

Did it start with The Bachelor? Did it start with being a professional ballerina? What was that like?

Alicia
Yeah, so actually the very first time I, you know, posted a video that kind of like got any type of traction was a video of me doing a series of entrechesicxes back in 2015, which is so random, but back in 2015. Okay. And Worldwide Ballet, you know, they saw it on Instagram, um, and they reposted it, they asked me if they could share it, whatever, and it got, like, I don't even know, I think like half a million views, and I was like, oh my gosh, that's so crazy. And then from there, I gained, like, a little bit of followers, and basically, over the, from 2015 until, um, uh, 2021, I had like seven, 8, 000 followers, which was, you know, not that much.

And then my Instagram got hacked and my Instagram got hacked by the Russians, which is like a whole crazy story within itself. But basically my Instagram got hacked. Actually, that's a lie. I had 14, 000 followers. My Instagram got hacked. Then I rebuilt my following to like 8, 000. Anyway, I like had never done a brand deal or anything like that at all.

But when I went on The Bachelor, they make you put your social media on private prior to filming. So my social media was on private. And then the day that we got our phones taken away, because you get your phone taken away on the show, which is crazy. But I guess the day we got our phones taken away, they, somebody accidentally leaked, “accidentally,” um, leaked the cast of who was on the show.

And then from there, um, you know, I guess I got a ton of like follower requests, et cetera. And then when I finally got voted off the show, I got my phone back. So I had like, Thousands of requests and then the show aired and I went from having like seven eight thousand followers to like twenty one thousand And then brands just started reaching out to me after they saw the first episode and they were like, oh my god We'd love to send you, you know, these snacks and these hair care products and the skincare, you know, all that stuff And then I got approached for a couple of brand deals.

So that's kind of what jump started My desire to like do social media. Um, so that, that, you know, I, I grew a little bit from like 21, 000 to 31, 000, but then actually about two years ago, September 1st will be two years ago that I really started taking social media, media seriously on Tik TOK. I just kind of was like, you know what?

I actually was supposed to do a show called sugar Hill, uh, by Josh Bergasse. And that was supposed to happen in 2022. And then it ended up getting postponed until 2023. And so I was so distraught. I was like, I have no plans for the fall. I was expecting to be rehearsing for four months, performing for a month.

And that kind of just felt like the rug was like pulled out from under me. And I had no plans, like no gigs, no teaching gigs, no dancing gigs, nothing. And so then I was like, you know what? I might as well use this time to grow my social media just for fun. Let's see where it takes me. And within the first, like, three months, I got, like, 100, 000 followers.

Next couple months, 200, 000, and so on and so forth. And now I have, like, 530, 000. Um, so that's kind of what started my journey almost two years ago.

Maia
Wow. That's great. Good on you. Claps for you. Getting into, like, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Do you feel like there's a pressure...And I know not all of your content is, is ballet related. You have the dance content. You have stuff about being adopted in your family time.

Alicia

Yeah. Thank you.

Maia
Funny, goofy stuff. So do you feel like there's pressure for you to post, I guess, more and more extreme content within the dance world and all of that?

Alicia
Yeah, I think that that pressure definitely exists in the dance space, and for all dancers.

On social media, but I personally don't let that affect me and let me feel pressure personally. Mm-Hmm. , you know, I actually don't like sharing videos of me dancing in, like performances and stuff like that. Like, that's hard for me because I'm so critical on myself. Um, but also people really wanna see that.

So I feel like just finding a perfect balance of sharing what I want to, and also what people, you know, on dance talk want to see. I feel like I've. I've kind of tried to find like a perfect balance about that, but also this summer I kind of was like, this is the first summer in so long I've kind of like taken the summer off.

I've danced, you know, for fun, but like I haven't done any dancing gigs, which honestly for my mental health has been so, so helpful. Being able to just do it for fun and, you know, doing auditions and stuff like that has also been fun, but I feel like I'm really excited and looking forward to the fall to really get getting back into it and posting more dance content.

Maia
Oh, good. Nice. That's exciting. I know you also have some teaching experience, so I'm wondering, do you have any tips for dance teachers? How can you use social media and not discourage social media, but try to make sure that kids are not only consuming the really hyper exciting content?

Alicia
Yes, I think that's an excellent question and for me, the way I go about my teaching method and, you know, I love teaching as much as I do dancing, you know, outside of, of, of social media, I feel like in the studio, my biggest thing is to be positive because I grew up with really positive teachers. I also grew up with really negative teachers.

And I benefited from both. And I also wasn't a kid that, you know, if I had a negative teacher was going to, you know, let that make me break down and cry, et cetera. But I just personally feel like for me as a dancer in my professional experience, working with choreographers, um, and you know, ballet masters and teachers that are more positive, that makes me want to work harder.

And that kind of encourages me a little more rather than being negative. And so I think for me translating that from being in the studio as a dance teacher. On to social media. I have a series called, um, PSA for Dancers, where I just like say, okay, this is how you do a pirouette, this is how you do a pique turn, a soda shot, etc.

And I feel like for me making those videos, sharing my knowledge, uh, really has been helpful. And I've seen such a wonderful response from dancers saying, Oh my God, I'm saving this and sending it to my best friend, or they tag each other. And I think I just go about that being very positive and encouraging.

And I think that that's been something that's I've heard, you know, feedback is super, super helpful. And so I would encourage dance teachers that. Really want to, um, showcase, you know, their knowledge on social media to just posting things that are really uplifting and encouraging to dancers out on social media.

And in terms of, you know, having kids watch like people that can do a million pirouettes or their leg goes up to here, you know, like that exists on social media. I wish we could like filter all that stuff out. Um, but I always, you know, encourage all my students to remember. that nobody is like them, you know?

And I also always tell my kids that just because somebody has beautiful legs and feet and lines does not mean that they are technically great dancers. Some of my favorite dancers, favorite ballerinas, they don't have the highest extensions. They can, you know, always do a consistent double, not even a triple.

But it's, it's the emotion and the feeling of that, that I think, for me, is so much more important and that takes precedence over, you know, being able to have the ability to do tricks, per se.

Maia
I wish everybody thought that way. Oh my gosh, yeah, I love it. So I'm going to pivot off of the social media thing because I had this question that I was just like dying to ask you personally.

I heard that you trained at Central Pennsylvania Youth Ballet at some point.

Alicia
Yes, I did. I did for three summers, which is crazy.

Maia
Oh, okay. Yeah. Great. So I'll start by saying I love their summer program. I just did it once. But I do have a criticism, I guess, that I'm going to ask your opinion on this, which is that I remember being at CPYB and having, I forget which teacher it was, someone was yelling at me,

Alicia
Oh gosh.

Maia
You have a pizza pie fifth. There's space between your toe and your heel in fifth. It's a pizza pie fifth. Have you heard this?

Alicia
My whole life. Yes. I have. So, as a teacher, that, again, teaches mostly recreational students, I only have them for a couple hours a week maybe, I'm never going to scream at someone that they have a pizza pie fifth, because then they're going to hurt themselves trying to over rotate.

But as a ballerina, what is important that we really need to focus on trying to push them? And what are the things That we should just let go and be like, they're casual dancers, it's okay if they have a pizza pie fifth.

Alicia
Yes, I have heard pizza pie fits so many times in my career, it's insane, it's quite literally insane.

Oh man. For me, whether, you know, there's obviously a difference of teaching recreational kids that are just dancing for fun, and teaching kids that want to go into ballet specifically or dance in general as a profession. With that being said, I think regardless, I always encourage students to work in their means.

And what I mean by that is, you could have a recreational kid that just, the good lord, gave them, you know, a hundred and ninety degree turnout, like crazy turnout, and they can get into fifth position easily, and it's no problem, and they have the tightest fifth in the world. On the other hand, you may have a kid that is a student that's training to be a professional, but they are very turned in.

I think I always encourage my students to work within what they have. So if a child has crazy turnout, that's great. That's wonderful. They can get into a tighter fifth, for example. But if a kid doesn't have, you know, a ton of turnout, I don't have And I just want them to focus on working and getting, you know, their technique based off of the fifth position that they can achieve without hurting their knees and their hips and their joints and everything.

And, you know, I think it's a little different for students that want to go pro. I think that maybe we can work on like strengthening their turnout muscles, you know, doing fire hydrants and clams and all those good exercises. I think that's the way I would approach them going about getting a little more turnout as opposed to like, You can't have any space in between your feet.

You know what I mean? Like that's so silly. And I think that the dance world is slowly trying to change that. And, you know, I think like my, my generation is really good in your generation is very good of like, encouraging, you know, not toxic behaviors in the dance studio. At least we're trying to, you know, eliminate that.

But I would say in general, just telling a student that they need to work in what they have, I think is really beneficial.

Maia
Yeah. That's awesome. Thank you. So pivoting back to kind of the social media conversation, because you are obviously a champion at that. And I'm not a studio owner. Like I'm very blessed, I think I just get to show up and teach.

Alicia
I say this all the time. Everyone's like, when are you going to open your own dance studio? Oh my gosh. And I'm like, never. That sounds like a nightmare. I just. Not a nightmare, but for me it sounds like a nightmare because I just could not deal with all of the drama that comes with that. It's just not for me. Other people that can do it, God bless them, but not me. No.

Maia
Yeah, so I know that there's a good amount of people that listen to the podcast that are studio owners. Yes. So I did want to do them. Yes. The service of asking you if you have any tips about using social media to gain followers, get more enrollment.
What's your inside scoop?

Alicia
Yeah, so I personally think, you know, I have a theory about just life in general, and I think you could, you know, a lot of people say that they recognize that. Seeing my social media, whether it's dance or being adopted or just life in general, I always look at the glass half full, meaning I, you know, obviously I look at the positive things.

So when it comes to social media, I love to look at social media as a positive entity, a positive thing that we can use to Whether or not your goal is to have followers, whether or not, like you said, your goal is to increase enrollment. I think that social media can be a wonderful, wonderful tool in that sense, but it also could be a not great tool and it could be a very negative space.

But I think to studio owners, I would say that if you want to share like your highest levels ballet class or your highest levels competition routine, whatever type of studio you are, You want to showcase the wonderful things that your studio does. I think that is such a wonderful tool to increase enrollment because I know people that are studio owners and teachers and they show their kids and show how they're working, um, on their technique as opposed to like all the tricks that they can do and then they do get increased enrollment.

So I think by showing what your school is great at technique wise or performance wise, whatever y'all's strength is, I think showcasing that on social media can definitely encourage people to. To enroll at your school and it can bring in followers. So I think that if you use it in a positive way, I think it could definitely be a positive thing for you and your school.

Maia
Nice. Do you have any tips on how to not just like live on social media? Like how do you take a break and make sure that you're not just constantly looking at comments and all that?

Alicia
So for me, I personally used to be so bad about it. I would just like find myself scrolling for hours and hours and hours.

And I think at the beginning when I was trying to grow my social media, grow my TikTok, grow my Instagram, et cetera, I would just get lost in the comments. I would get lost in, you know, there, there was a struggle in between scrolling for pleasure, for fun. And scrolling because I was like, okay, what are the trends?

What's going on? What do I need to do? What can I create? How can I be creative in this space? And so I think now I personally limit scrolling for pleasure and scrolling to get creative ideas on social media. I think the less that you can scroll and just like fall down rabbit holes, the better, especially.

Especially for young students, because social media can be a really negative, toxic place. And I also think that comparison is terrible, and I always tell students that I teach, nobody is ever going to beat you. So, you know, you open TikTok, you see a girl, again, that could do 10 pirouettes, her legs up here, beautiful feet.

She does not possess the qualities that you possess as a dancer. She might have wonderful, a wonderful facility, but at the same time, you could have the best performance quality in the whole world. And that's going to honestly make you more a successful dancer than just having the facility. Dance is about feeling.

Yes. Do we want the technique? Yes. Do we want, you know, pretty legs and feet. But at the end of the day, It is about the feeling and how you can make other people feel when you're dancing. So I think keeping that in the back of your mind, but also with comments, I kind of just stopped reading the comments and reading negative comments.

I filter out words on my, on my TikTok specifically. Um, so if somebody wants to comment something nasty and negative, I just, I don't see it because I don't want that to affect me. But also I think I've gotten really good at like, not caring because I'm like, How is somebody, you know, hiding behind a screen, typing mean things?

They don't know me at the end of the day, so I'm like, I just, I, I have gotten really good at just kind of shutting that out and just like not caring. But it takes a while. Yeah, like how can people be commenting negative stuff on your content when they've been all positive? Right, I'm like, I try, I try to be very positive, but Haters are always gonna be out there, but I just, I don't let that get to me. I just, I can't, so.

Maia
You're amazing.

Alicia
Thank you so much.

Maia
So, we're almost out of time. You do not have to answer this if you don't want to.

Alicia
Oh, I'm here for it. I'm ready. I'm in the hot seat. I love it.

Maia
Well, this is, I'm going totally off topic, but mainly because, like I said, me and my sister are like big fans of the Bachelor franchise.

Alicia
I love it.

Maia
So, Before you go, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask, at least on her behalf, um, do you have like a juicy tidbit you could tell us about the show, like some behind the scenes stuff?

Alicia
Let me see. I'm trying to figure out what I can say and what, I mean, I have been out of contract with them for a long time, so I really can't say anything.

Um, but a lot of people say, oh my gosh, reality TV. It's scripted, and it's so scripted, and it's so this, it's so that. It's not scripted, but it's heavily, heavily influenced. Not that the producers bully you or pressure you into saying something, but it's kind of like, okay, well if you don't say this, you're not gonna get a rose and you're gonna go home.

And I never experienced that, but watching other people and having other girls on the show that would come out of interview, they would say, they literally told me tonight, I'm not gonna get a rose. If I don't say X, Y, and Z and I was like, Ooh, wow, like that's, that's harsh, you know? Um, so that's crazy. And then also the way that they just like, misshape.

A lot of things is crazy as well. For example, I remember I was getting like my head shots done for the show. This is before we went into filming before night one. And I was like fixing my hair and the cameraman was like, Hey, can you actually fix your hair? Blah, blah, blah. And I was like, yeah, sure. And then they were like, look at this before and after.

And they flipped the screen around and I could see. And then I was like, I said something along the lines of, Oh my gosh. Yes. And then afterwards I was like, that's much better. So then. I, you know, flash forward a couple months off the show, and the promos start coming out. And all of a sudden, I see this promo of me, and it was like, How excited are you that Matt James is the new Bachelor?

How hot do you think he is? Or something like that. And I was like, Oh, yes. And then I was like, Wait a minute. I was like, That was not what, like, it was just so taken out of context. And I was like, hmm, that's really interesting, but the whole show is kind of just like, flip flopped, in my experience, so, yeah, but, it's crazy.

Yeah, so that's a little juicy tea.

Maia
I pretty much just checked out of that season when you got sent home. She's literally a beautiful ballerina, you were dumb.

Alicia
Yeah, I was like, you know what? It is what it is. It worked out.

Maia
So I'm glad it worked out for you. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for doing this.
This has been amazing to talk to you. And I think really helpful, like I said, even for people who are not like me, who are studio owners, people who are like me, who are teachers. We covered it all. Thank you so much.

Alicia
No, thank you so much for having me. This was so great. And like, I'm just so excited for people to listen to this.
And hopefully I provided, you know, some insight for them that's super helpful. So, thank you, thank you, thank you. This was so great. And I can't wait to see this.

Maia
Oh my gosh. This is Maia hopping back on after I've recorded the interview with Alicia. Still kind of in shock that Alicia took the time to talk to me and so thankful for all the insights she shared and just taking the time to give her perspective.

I hope that was really helpful for all of you. There's so much there that I think can apply to anybody, whether you are promoting a studio on social media, or using it to promote yourself as a teacher or a choreographer, or just trying to get a better balance between your work life and just using social media for entertainment for yourself.

These are things that I think we all face being in the dance industry. It affects all of us in one way or another. So I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. Make sure to show Alicia some love on her socials, on TikTok and Instagram to support her and say thank you for her taking the time to share with all of us on the podcast today.

If you are looking to connect and you're not already part of the Casual Dance Teachers Network, that is a group on Facebook where I encourage listeners of the podcast or any dance teachers and educators to connect and share your questions, thoughts, and insights online with one another. And if you need more resources related to music, music, editing, mixing, or mastering services, check out GB mystical who wrote the incredible theme music for this episode.

You can find GB mystical on Apple music, Spotify, band camp, and so much more. So like Alicia said, let's use social media for the positive ways that we can build each other up and support each other through it. I hope to see you there.